Importance Of Selling on Value, Not on Cost!

In this episode of Love Your Sales Podcast, we dive deep into the essence of selling on value, not just price, with expert guest Brent Halfwassen, founder of MKE Small Business Coach. In this enlightening conversation, Leighann and Brent dissect the crucial aspects of understanding client needs, positioning services for maximum impact, and the strategies for transforming hard work into hard cash. The dialogue centers around the pivotal role of empathy in coaching, leveraging individuality in business strategies, and the transformative power of choosing the right actions over busyness. Brent shares invaluable insights on the importance of focusing on value to drive sales and ensure client satisfaction, emphasizing the art of pricing based on perceived customer value rather than just the cost. Join us for this insightful discussion on making the leap from merely transacting to creating lasting value and relationships in business.

 

Contact Brent –

Website – www.MKEbusinesscoach.com

LinkedIn- https://www.linkedin.com/in/brenthalfwassen/

 

Special Thank you to our Sponsor Genhead – www.genhead.com

Robb Conlon – Intro and outro – Westport Studio - https://www.westportstudiosllc.com/

The Brave Ones – Instrumental Version Song by Jan Sanejko - https://artlist.io/royalty-free-music/song/the-brave-ones/119489

 

Leighann Lovely: To another episode of Love Your Sales. I'm so excited today. I am joined by Brent Halfwassen. He is the founder of MKE Small Business Coach, a business coaching and consulting firm focused on small business owners and entrepreneurs up to 5 million in revenue.

Brent is a reality focused small business coach empowering small business owners and entrepreneurs so they can stop spinning their wheels [00:02:00] and instead take the next right action to transform their hard work into hard cash. We all need that, He has spent over 20 years building businesses and opportunities, coaching hundreds of entrepreneurs and small business owners around him and evolving his own entrepreneurial focus. Brent, I am thrilled to have you come on and talk with me today. So welcome.

Brent Halfwassen: Thanks for having me on Leighann. I'm looking forward to talking to your audience and seeing how I can help them grow as well.

Leighann Lovely: So tell me a little bit about, you know, some of your core, you know, principles and how you begin with coaching some of your clients.

Brent Halfwassen: That's a great question. So the first thing I like to lead with Leighann is that everyone is individual. And while there may be great systems and tools and processes that everyone ought to be using, [00:03:00] that's not the reality for most of us. Most of us have a problem that we are really trying to overcome.

It's a pain point that we feel. And I just think is a great coach. I've got to come in and understand that I've got to come with deep empathy and insights because being a small business owner is hard. It's lonely. All your W2 friends have no idea what you're talking about, even though you try and relate to them.

And so when I, and then I bring a lot of humor in order to help that out. So with an initial evaluation, we try and get at like, Hey, is this probably what's going on, how you're feeling, where you're at. And then we start to build on what are those next right actions. Because most of the folks that, uh, finally reached that breaking point, they're like, I'm doing all the things I know how to do.

Usually it's their greatness, right? They're amazing at their skill, craft or trade. But when they want to do the next thing in order to keep growing the business, they're like, it's stuck. I keep doing more and not, and more is not happening. And that's where we come around. And we try and build, what are the other pieces [00:04:00] you need?

But of the myriad of like 5, 000 things you can do and all the newsletters you're getting, let's pick the next one, two or three things that are actually right for your business and take those actions so that we can transform that hard work into hard cash.

Leighann Lovely: You know, and hearing you say that, You know, I, I just recently reread, um, good to great.

And I, I right now, the, the thing that's ringing in my head, um, is that so many people forget to make the list of things that you don't, that you shouldn't do, right? We try to do everything as small business owners, and we forget that there are habits. That we need to stop doing right because they're non revenue generating tasks or they're just so less important than we think they are because they've become [00:05:00] habits of what worked maybe when we were a one person shop, but now we're a 10 person shop and it's, you know, evolving as a business, you have to learn to shift your thinking and shift the way that you do things and kind of move.

Uh, cause. Parts, they all have, you know, different functions, right? So, And the other thing that, again, I went from being a W 2 employee, not that long ago, to being that business owner, and it's such a hard,

it's, you can't explain it to your friends. They're like, well, well, you go to work every day. Well, yeah, but I go to work every day, and I'm the only one. Everything falls on me and, and that pressure.

Brent Halfwassen: You're, well, you're totally right, Leanna. I think the best part is that they tell you, Oh, you can set your own schedule now.

You can do what you want. It must [00:06:00] be nice to have all that freedom, right? I'm sure you didn't hear that from anyone when you launched your business. Right.

Leighann Lovely: All that freedom. That's what I think. That's the dream that we chase when we think we're going to, when we go, Oh, I'm going to run my own, I'm going to start my own business.

I'm going to have all this freedom. Um, I have zero, I haven't even thought about the idea of a vacation because I'm like, well, who's going to answer my emails? Who's going to take care of my clients? Who's going to answer the phone? Who, If I'm gone, my business shuts down. So. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's the reality of small business ownership.

So, I'm gonna guess that somebody talking with you, somebody meeting with you, is like, Okay, Brent, how do I [00:07:00] do this? How do I scale? How do I get my life together?

Brent Halfwassen: That's it. That's it. I think there's, you, you touched on something that is so critical. What are the things we need to stop? So one of the reasons that we can focus on just what are the next few, not more than three actions you need to take is because we are creatures of habit.

And so we don't need to monitor the other pieces that are already habitual to us. I only need to monitor the ones that I'm actually changing because it's the change that's hard. The habits come naturally. And there may be 50 things we need, quote, need, need to fix, but I don't want you to shut on yourself because we're not capable.

There's like one in a bajillion who can like do all this amazing change. And I'm always a little bit dubious with their story, quite honestly, but that's fine. They're out there. The bell curve has been people way out on the tails. Most of us are not there. And so I recommend you do not emulate those people.

So we just stick with a few that you can change. So to your point, some of the change is stop doing it. [00:08:00] And the question is what happens if you stop doing that thing? Will the world end where your business actually sink? Is it actually true? Cause the voice in your head's probably saying, Oh, people are going to hate you and no one's going to buy from you again and blah, blah, blah.

All right, stop. Like when you put the imposter down and then you say, what will really happen? And then what happens if we actually. Respond to that proposal. Follow up on that hot lead. Um, you know, make sure that you send the third follow up when you haven't gotten an answer on the first two on something you knew was good for you, right?

I'm sure you talk a lot about how to, you know, don't let a simple no or a ignore or I'm busy or how about next week or I'm going out of town. Can we meet in next month? Whatever. Say, okay. Absolutely. Let me put it on the calendar versus like, Oh, they didn't want to talk to me. They must not want to buy my stuff, but those, those voices go on all the time.

The other piece I love that you talked about was working in your business. So you're the one doing all the things and Hey, let's face it. When we're a solo entrepreneur, we're just getting [00:09:00] started. That is our reality. However, one of my clients I worked with, that was her main goal. I want to take a vacation.

In fact, she was going to go on an extended mission trip. In a different continent. So she was not going, not only not going to be available. She was truly no phone, no internet. You can't reach me at all for a month. Well, we figured out how to organize her business to be able to make that happen. She made more money that year than she had made in previous years by a good stretch and took her first vacation in 20 years.

So That is, it is doable, but it takes some specific actions and specific steps to get it done.

Leighann Lovely: And that's the amazing thing about working with somebody like you is that entrepreneurs, and I'm guilty of this, is that nobody else can do it as good as me. Nobody else can do what I do. That is, it's so untrue, right?

Because it, and if I think [00:10:00] that truly stay thinking that. I will never grow. I will never scale. I will never be able to become bigger than just one person.

Brent Halfwassen: Yeah, and

Leighann Lovely: we can go down this rabbit hole forever. But let me put what I want to talk to you about. Yeah,

Brent Halfwassen: go. Well, let me spin it because I think it gets to where we want to go in our conversation.

Um, Uh, but let me just say that it's possible that people can't do it as well as you, but I want you to value your time appropriately because there are probably things that like is 80 percent good enough is 60 percent good enough because when you're amazing at what you do, you can probably do what you give yourself.

You're like, ah, that was a C performance and everyone else was like, Leon, that was the best thing I've ever seen in my entire life. And we're judging ourselves hard. So just remember when we value our time appropriately, I want you as the amazing skill doer to go out and do your amazingness because that's your best value that you can [00:11:00] deliver that people are going to perceive.

Let's let some of those other pieces go elsewhere.

Leighann Lovely: And, and I'm going to stop again, this conversation could go on forever because I mean, entrepreneurs become entrepreneurs of the thing that They love to do because they're good at it because they're great at it. But like, to your point, can I hire somebody else to do some of those other pieces?

And those are the smart people. Hire others who can do what you aren't great at. And allow you the time to be great at something else. Now, let's get into, you and I had a conversation on something that you talk a lot about, and this is, I'm very passionate about this. Um, I was brought up to know this, to understand it.

And I also want to caution [00:12:00] the listeners to make sure that you're understanding what we're talking about. So we're going to make sure that we stay. You know, focused on this, we talked about selling on value versus on price, and people talk about this all the time, but they're young salespeople can sometimes get confused by this if it's not explained properly.

So Brent, I want you to talk through this, explain what you explained to, and you talk about this a lot. Let's talk about the difference between selling on value versus selling on price.

Brent Halfwassen: Great. I appreciate that because this is also something that drives me nutty when people bring up, I want to figure out how, like, I'm working my butt off.

I don't have any money showing up on the bottom line. One of the first places we look is ultimately how much are you charging for your product or service? Here's the way that, um, I would say mainstream media [00:13:00] generally talks about price, supply and demand, whatever you want. It's how much does it cost? And where can I go and get it cheaper?

And that is sort of like the default mindset. So by default, when we start our businesses, we're like, Oh, you know, I don't know, is someone actually going to pay 200 for that thing? Maybe it should be one 30. Maybe it should be 100. And we start talking ourselves out of it. And we think of it always in terms of a cost.

Now, almost everything that we're selling, there are probably a few exceptions, so I won't say everything, but I'm pretty sure it's close to everything actually depends on its circumstance. So when I talk about. Don't talk about price when the first opening discussion you have is someone's like, Hey, would you like this cookie?

Well, how much does it cost that that totally the value that you're going to get from under the person's going to get for? It depends because, for example, if I happen to be in the Feister forum watching a box game, that cookie is probably going to be like 8. And I may think it's a steal if it's 6. Why?

[00:14:00] Cause I can't carry in food. I'm hungry. I'm cheering on the team. And I'm looking for a little bit of hit after some tasty rib niblets I had from iron grate or whatever you got going on. Right. You know that it's going to be more. And generally there's a line of people at the cash register pan. So someone determined the value of that cookie was dependent on its location was dependent on how it was served, depend on the conditions.

Your businesses are just the same. How are you positioning it? If you immediately go in and start talking about price, here's what happens. You become a commodity. A commodity is an item you can buy wherever and whenever from the lowest bidder, that's like going on to an auction site maybe. And like, where's the lowest spot I can go.

And if you compete on cost, here's the problem. Someone else will always be cheaper than you. So I want you to think about how can I position this, whatever it is you offer your product or service, and what is the value from the consumer standpoint? It's not always about what [00:15:00] am I worth? You know, like I would, you know, this isn't about an intrinsic value of who you are.

This is about your customer. How are they going to use whatever it is you have? What is the circumstance they need to use it in? And when we start digging into some of those questions, Which by the way, should be part of your sales process. I'm sure you dig into that with people to understand what, what is their core need?

Boy, if I just had a solution to this particular problem, that would be amazing. And that is your cue to say, let's figure out what that is literally worth. And I'm talking about dollars and cents. If you had it, I'd be able to free up a salesperson. What does it mean if you're up a salesperson? Wow. If I had a freed up salesperson, I'd be able to get an extra X number of dollars per year.

Okay, cool. What's your margin on that? 20%. All right. So you said you get an extra 100, 000, 20 percent of that's 20, 000. So what you're telling me is if I can help you free up an extra salesperson, you would put 20, 000 more dollars in your pocket. Yes. Now I know what my offering is worth. If I can deliver on that, on that guarantee.

Do I get to keep all that money? Nope. They're going to want to keep some of [00:16:00] that money, but you now know what it's worth when you position it. And it is not about. A price per hour. It is not about, oh, if I look at my job on salary. com and divided by 2000, this is what it's worth. We're not doing that.

We're talking about the value to the end customer.

Leighann Lovely: And that I love the way that you just explained that and position that. I also want to throw in there that. It's, it's not completely fluid when we're talking and yes, you and I kind of talked about it. It can be, it can be based on how you're positioning the offering.

However, you need to make sure that you have a standard of, you know, a baseline that you're building that off of so that you're consistent amongst what you're proposing to other people. Correct. [00:17:00] Or what you're proposing to the masses, you can't go and offer your same service to 2 different people at completely different prices.

Brent Halfwassen: Yeah, I think you

Leighann Lovely: could potentially get, yeah, I think

Brent Halfwassen: if you are, um. Particularly if your prices are far and wide, so we're not, I'm not talking about demand dynamic pricing. That's a thing right now. And there are, there are probably scenarios where that works. I think some companies are going to experience some significant pushback.

And demand pricing is just like, Oh, let's do supply and demand. And it's essentially an auction. And if there's a long lineup for fries, those fries are about to get more expensive until the line gets shorter. Um, I think you can have some reputational challenges if that's what you're perceived as doing.

Um, you know, we're, again, we're not bringing generators into a hurricane torn zone, like that's, you know, we started talking about price gouging. You, you gotta be, you do have to be careful. [00:18:00] I want to put a nuance on that, that depending on what you're doing, particularly if you're offering a service.

Generally, your service delivery isn't unique in every circumstance, so you can you can position it a little bit differently. However, as you start to become really good at understanding what your value is, um, you're and provide value is when I work with these clients, these are the results they tend to get once I've worked with 10, 15, 20, 100 of those type of clients.

Now, all of a sudden, I kind of understand. Hey, Hey, When I come to the table, here's the stuff I'm probably going to find. I'm going to understand you. And now I kind of know where my range needs to be. Now, if I, in that scenario, maybe what I'm talking about is not the same service at a different price, but I'm offering a range of different services.

Hey, I can do one thing at this level, but I can do another thing at this level. And wow. And if you're really ready to capture that whole 20, 000, we were talking about, this is the level you really need to consider purchasing. So there's some different ways. To make it work. Um, I [00:19:00] just want everyone to understand the concept because most people go right to cost.

What does it cost? Not, it doesn't cost you anything. Right. What problem is it solving? Cause I'm about to give you a value because I'm gonna solve a problem for you, not drain money out of your wallet.

Leighann Lovely: Correct. And, and it goes back to what I was, you know, what was ingrained in me and as an early sales person.

If, if you have a client who is buying on price. They're they will leave on price if you're not setting up the value first, they're there and they all they want to know is, well, how much does it cost? How much does it cost? How much does it cost? They're going to leave you on price because there will always be somebody in the market who's willing to say, well, I'll do it for 2 points cheaper.

And so they're going to go. Okay, great. But if you're setting up that value up front of this is why you're going to, you want to work with me, because this is what we're going to provide to you at the end of the day. And this is what your ROI. Ultimately, what we're doing is [00:20:00] providing the ROI of the product.

Why the value, the return on your investment is X, Y, Z. This is why we do it best. This is how we are going to be a, and I I'm emphasizing we, I shouldn't, this is how, you know, our company is going to be able to bring value and your return on your investment, and we're different because X, Y, Z, and if you can convey that, I've And they can buy into that before they go, okay, so what is this?

You know, ultimately what is the fees? What is the cost to that? But they're already sold before you ever have that fees or cost, or they're not going to leave you when somebody comes and says, well, I can do it for two points cheaper, because they're going to go, yeah, but I really like the service that I'm working with because.

They're providing what they [00:21:00] told me they would provide. They will become a client for life versus the client that comes and says, yeah, you're too expensive before they've ever heard why they should work with you. Right. It's

Brent Halfwassen: a beautiful example that, that you gave. We, uh, was involved with a real estate transaction and there was a broker who just straight out said I, I cost a point more than anyone else.

And the reason is because I'm going to get you about 25 percent more value for your property than anyone else will. And I'm like, well, I am all in on that. If you're going to get me a big pile of extra money, and I have to pay you an extra couple of grand or whatever the number is, that's, that's the trade off.

They went above and beyond. They were answering the questions. They were consulting along the way. They were providing that additional service that the others literally their pitch was. I am the lowest price commodity in the market. And I'm like, yeah, but if you don't do the best for me, [00:22:00] the value is not there, right?

Leighann Lovely: Correct. You know, and coming from I, you know, I came from a wildly saturated. And competitive industry being in the staffing, you can go on every corner and find a staffing company. Right? And 1 of the 1st questions that any company asked is, well, what is your markup? Before we even get into the markup conversation, do you want to hear, you know, how we screen our candidates, how we go through the process to make sure that we're not wasting your time by sending you 10 resumes and you're then spending, you know, 10 hours interviewing people who aren't qualified because how, how valuable is your time?

Would you rather get three resumes? Of really highly qualified people that we've already screened a ton to make sure that they're a match that if you have background [00:23:00] requirements, if you have drug screen, whatever, would you rather spend 3 hours and have the candidate and have an offer within a week? Or would you rather spend 10 hours to come back to me and say, this person doesn't match and they go, oh.

Okay, wait, well, so how, how do you do it differently?

Brent Halfwassen: Here's

Leighann Lovely: how we do it differently, but we're, but we're two points higher than the other agency. So again, I ask you, how valuable is your time?

Brent Halfwassen: So I, and I position, um, so I, along with this point, Leighann, I don't like it when people talk about how they're cost effective or, You know, frankly, lower costs than someone else.

Like I, anytime I see that language in any of their verbiage, I'm like, that all needs to go away. One, I had a similar situation, I believe, to what you're sharing. I had a client just, um, I was coming through with, we were, we were raising our prices and I said, here's our new price. Um, you know, obviously they had the right to say, no, we're in on, it's just going [00:24:00] somewhere.

So they said, well, look, I can hire X, Y, Z and do all this stuff. And then they, you know, start annualizing your rate. And, you know, even though you're only working with them for 20 hours, they figure out, well, if you were a full time employee, I'd be paying you a bazillion blah, blah, blah. Like you hear all the noise.

And I was like, look, it is your choice, obviously how you want to go. However, if you would like to hire someone who will take twice as long to get an answer and the results won't be as good. That is absolutely your prerogative if you want the value of me being able to understand the answer immediately and being able to provide you a solution that you can implement effectively and actually get the results you want to achieve.

That's why I positioned where I'm at, but the result is yours. There are plenty of people who will provide you less value than I will instead of talking about charge less instead of saying you pay less. I just straight say they will provide you less value. And if that's what you would like. I respect your choice.

Leighann Lovely: Correct. And we can go around that in a million different ways. Same thing with So, you know, financial advisor, [00:25:00] I can throw, you know, every time I go to a networking meeting, or I go to, I can throw a bunch of business cards out and have 4 financial advisors say, hey, I'd love to do a portfolio analysis.

Okay. Great. Let me list off the things that are important to me. And let's see if you have those things, you know, and then if you have those things, maybe we can have a, now, first of all, I have a financial advisor that I love. So nobody, please call me about financial. The point is, is that, you know, if my financial advisor comes to me and says, you know, Leighann, you'll have complete transparency.

You can log into your account at any time. You can do transfers directly from here. You, you know, you, but on the backend, here's what we're going to do for you. And then we're going to do this. Provide the value. First, that's what I care about. Don't start selling me on your, and here's what drives me crazy.

Don't start telling me what your [00:26:00] company has done in the past. I don't care that your company is 80 years old or 200 years old. It's about what it is today. What value does your company have today for the people of 2024? That's what's important to most people. Now, most people. There are people out there who like who are I want to know the history.

I want to know where, you know, how it evolved. It's different for everybody. There's everybody has those different, but you before and I stress this, I've had people come to me and say, I just can't close. I just can't. Okay. Well, then you're not, you don't know what that person wants from you. That's

Brent Halfwassen: right.

They,

Leighann Lovely: you, you've missed the mark. If they're, if they've come to you, you've gone through the entire process. [00:27:00] You've presented them a proposal and they're not closing. You have not created or you have not found their pain point and created the value of your service.

Brent Halfwassen: Yeah. Or your services. The majority

Leighann Lovely: of the people.

Or correct, you're either your product is not right for them and you wasted a whole bunch of time because you didn't figure that out in the initial conversation and we're not in a world of, you know, sleazy salespeople where we shove product on people's throats that they don't need and then walk away and go, yes, I got one.

I hope nobody's in, you know, trying to do that anymore. We're, we're in the world of find the proper prospects, talk to them about. What they need, and if you're a match, continue the conversation, go through the complete discovery, figure out what solution you [00:28:00] have, present that solution, make sure you understand what their pain points are, how that solution is going to solve that problem for them, and make sure the value exists.

And I guarantee that if you do that, all those steps properly. They're going to go, Oh, I don't care how much it is. If you're going to do all of that for me, here's my checkbook. And obviously if money does, it does come down to if they have the money in the bank. And there are true situations where somebody goes, Brent, I want to buy from you, but I just can't afford it right now.

And I will tell you that in those situations, often they will come back to you and go, I can now afford you.

Brent Halfwassen: No, I think I love the process you said out there. I think it's so critical. If [00:29:00] you know who your customer is, you know what problems they solve. Your question asking during that sales process needs to be unearthing more of the magnitude of the problem. And you're looking for, you know, what your services are, you know, roughly where your price points are going to be.

You're working to match those pieces up and saying, okay, hold on. You're saying that this is your experience. This is your challenge, whatever. I think we can help you there. Here's where we're going to go to. And by doing that, by, by focusing on the issue that your client or customer is having versus focusing on the thing that you have to sell, you are shifting automatically into a value focused selling model.

Uh, when we just buy like, Hey, I got a thing. I need to sign up first come first served. I got three spots left. I mean, great. There's a lot of additional things to create some FOMO and closing techniques, et cetera. But if the value is absent. Even if you're shopping at the dollar store, if the value is absent, [00:30:00] people won't buy the plenty of items there that are cheap, but if I don't find the value, I won't buy, right?

Leighann Lovely: Correct. We're not the majority of the, we're not a consumer. You know, we're not sitting on a shelf as the candy bar that people go, Ooh, I'm gonna throw that in my cart. Right. We're not the entrepreneurs, small business owners are typically not the, , what word am I looking for?

Brent Halfwassen: Impulse buy.

You're not the impulse buy at the cash register.

Leighann Lovely: There we go.

Brent Halfwassen: And the reason someone else can do that at scale much better than you can. So I want you to focus on experiences because experience has a value proposition that we can talk about and move. Even if you're selling a product. You can provide an experience around it.

Maybe it's in your customer delivery. Maybe it's in the store experience. Maybe it's in the online portal. However you do it, you can make it unique and you and then drive value with how you do it. And you can you can provide the value through the website even when people don't [00:31:00] talk to you. But if you're thinking about those customer problems and you're addressing those customer problems, you're embracing this value mindset that we're talking about where price is not what we're having a discussion about.

And I don't like anchoring price early because people will it. Evaluate it based on someone else's, their understanding of the value that they can get. And when you can explain and crack the nut on where they're going to go, I think you're going to see some success in making sure there's value behind how you're pricing.

And you'll feel more confident, both in terms of closing and in terms of, Hey, I think we've clearly established this is what it's worth. If there's a gap there, you can try and close that, but you can walk away knowing that, like, Hey, They know it's there because sometimes the sale isn't today. That thing's going to linger for a while.

They'll come back and be like, you know what? That problem didn't get any better. And maybe the dollar gap got even bigger. I'm ready now.

Leighann Lovely: Correct. So we are coming to time. Brent, I want to give you the opportunity to do your. Shameless 32nd pitch. So go ahead and [00:32:00] the floor is yours.

Brent Halfwassen: I love it. Hey, if you're a small business owner and you're amazing at your skill, career or trade, you've started growing your business, you've hit a spot that you think you're ready to keep going, but all of a sudden you're working your butt off, you don't have much money to show for it.

That's the spot where Milwaukee small business coach comes in and helps you. We're gonna help you identify those areas. It could be in sales, it could be in operations. It could be in how to translate your actions into actually seeing dollars show up on the on your bank. We want to come in. We want to help you do check us out.

MKEbusinesscoach. com. We've got a lot of information for you. We've got insights. We'd love to talk with anyone, listen to this show. Just give us an opportunity to help you move along and see if there's an opportunity we can get you to succeed and transform your hard work and hard cash.

Leighann Lovely: That was awesome.

Thank you. So much if, um, and you gave us your website, correct?

Brent Halfwassen: That's the website. And, and, and you can, you can reach out to us, give us comments, schedule a meeting directly on our website, right? With one of our coaches.

Leighann Lovely: [00:33:00] Perfect. And your contact information will be in the show notes. So if you're interested in reading, reaching out to Brent, please do so.

Um, but this has been an awesome conversation to remember that, um, you know, to sell on value, not on price. And thank you so much, Brent.

Brent Halfwassen: Thanks Leighann for having me on.