Know, Like & Trust - How Sales and Marketing Should Work Together

Lisa Raebel shares valuable insights on the power of marketing and sales. It explains how marketing builds brand awareness and captures the audience's attention, and how sales rely on trust to convert leads into customers. Join us as she unravels the "know, like, and trust" framework, explaining how it drives brand awareness, engages the audience, and ultimately converts leads into loyal customers.

Contact Lisa Raebel –

Website - https://rebelgirlmarketing.com/

 

Leighann Lovely: Welcome to another episode of Love Your Sales. I am joined today by Lisa Raebel, founder and chief storyteller. Welcome, Lisa. I'm excited to have you. Thanks. Thanks for having me. Yeah. So, Lisa is the, Rebel behind Rebel Girl Marketing. Not only are you the, , founder and chief storyteller of Rebel Girl Marketing, you are also the author.

Of an amazing marketing, a guide to [00:02:00] marketing. You are a speaker, leader in your, you know, industry sales professional, author, podcaster. I'm so thrilled to have you join

Lisa Raebel: me today. Thanks. Yeah. Full schedule, right? Yeah. Yeah. When you love what you do, it's easy to do it all the time.

Leighann Lovely: So what I would love to do, is dive right in, to a topic that I think most people who are in the marketing and sales, , you know, arena understand this, but people who are kind of on the outside often misunderstand.

The difference between sales and marketing. Yep. And so I would

Lisa Raebel: love to talk.

Leighann Lovely: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's so, so often use people use that term. Oh, so you're in sales and marketing. So let's talk about the difference between. What those two things are.

Lisa Raebel: Absolutely. Um, there is a [00:03:00] gentleman who coined the phrase, no, like a K N O W no, like trust, which is in my opinion, what I use foundationally for when I do my trainings and my speaking.

So no is people know you have to exist. That's marketing, getting it out there, brand awareness, all those really great things, right? Like is the content that you have. So what the marketing that you're doing, what are you saying? What is the, what is the art? What are the visual aspects of your marketing? So no, like is marketing for sure.

They have to know you exist. They have to like what you say. And then the transition from marketing to sales goes from like to trust. They have to trust you enough to buy. They have to trust you enough to give you money in exchange for what you're selling. So it has to work together because marketing is the brand awareness and like grabbing the audience's audience's attention and getting them engaged with you.

And then the sales is just taking them. That's the transactional aspect of what you're selling. So no, like trust is the [00:04:00] absolute connection between sales and marketing. And you can't have one without the other. You have to trust yourself enough to give you money in exchange for what you're selling.

Actually closing a transaction, what's the point? And if you're just trying to sell all the time to people who don't know and like you, yet you're, you know, you get to that sleazy aspect of sales where nobody wants to be there either. So it's definitely working in tandem with each other.

Leighann Lovely: So that's a wrap.

I mean, everybody understand, which is

Lisa Raebel: great

Leighann Lovely: explanation. So I mean, and so you said that so perfectly beautifully and you really did. I mean, it seems so simplistic, but as a salesperson, I'm going to go, okay, wait, wait, wait, wait. What if I don't have a marketing team? , how do I, how do I position myself at all to.[00:05:00]

Yeah. How do I position myself on the marketing side? How do I even begin?

Lisa Raebel: So there's five questions that I talk about, it's called, and I do this as a speaking event as well. It's called market the five steps to market like a rebel. And it's literally answering these five questions. And the thing is, you don't answer these five questions once https: otter.

ai Regularly because it depends upon the product. You're selling the time of year. You're selling. Um, like, if you, if you're launching a new product, there's a lot of things. So the 1st question is why do I need marketing in the 1st place? And people think it's like more clients, more money. Yeah. Is it though?

Um, because sometimes if you're a brand new, it's brand awareness. Like I need people to know that I exist. Like I just started, I need brand awareness. So my marketing is all about letting people know I exist. And then sometimes it is new clients. You know, there's a lot of attrition when it comes to sales, like a client doesn't need your [00:06:00] services any longer or you lose them to competition.

So you need new clients. So that's the second reason why you need marketing. Another reason would be you're launching a new product or service. 1 of them could be you want to be a subject matter expert. You want to get on stages you want to be hired as an out at an outsource. Expert at a company. So there's a lot of reasons why you need marketing.

That isn't just more money and more sales. I have one customer or one client who she needed. She had capacity for all of her stuff. She has a Pilates studio. She has enough clients, but then she wanted to do a campaign for upselling those clients to bring private Pilates classes, because if she sold any more clients, people wouldn't be able to get in their studio and then she'd lose clients.

You know, there's, there was a capacity with what she does. So there's a, there's a whole why you need marketing in the first place. The second question is what are you selling? And this is not products and services, you know, features, benefits, that kind of stuff. This is like, what [00:07:00] problems are you solving?

What emotions are attached to those problems that you're solving? And then writing your content around the emotions and like grabbing that person's attention. Um, there's a, there's a wheel of eight basic emotions and there's always opposite, right? There's disgust and then there's acceptance. There's. You know, there's frustration and then there's joy, right?

There's opposites. So if your customer is really frustrated about something, how do you bring them joy in that situation? And that's another, there's a whole nother gamut of things to do. And then it's, who is your target audience? Because you might have different products. You're not going to have the different person.

And within that, that's a confuse your audience too much. But when you sell, you have the buyer, the people who are actually writing the check, you have the end user, which is not always the buyer. And then you have the influencers of the users and the buyers. So your marketing could be based around that.

The other question is where do they hang out? So the question for is like, where do I go? Where are these people engaging with this information? Is [00:08:00] it online? Is it in person? Is it, is it audio? Is it visual? Like all those, what channel do I use? And the last question, the fifth question is what do I say when I get there?

And so if you answer those five questions. Truly, honestly, with that aspect of it, then you can build marketing off of that. And as salespeople, we should know all five, answer to all five of those questions. Correct.

Leighann Lovely: And, and it's funny because as you're going through that as a hardcore salesperson, you know, my default button is always, Hey, marketing is great.

And that's a great way for people to know the business, you know, know who or what company I represent, but my, you know, and, and, and this is funny because I've, I've actually sent like verbiage over to like, Hey, I just want to make sure that this. This pitch is correct that I'm representing the product.

Right? And my marketing team will send back this beautifully written like statement. And I'm like, how am I supposed [00:09:00] to say that? I'm like, no, this isn't for and that's again, a very different approach from marketing. And so, because as a salesperson, I want the down and dirty. How do I say this in 20 seconds to encapsulate what.

I do that represents what you're creating as the brand online presence or whatever presence you're creating. Right. Um, and that's where the alignment comes in as the salesperson going out saying, this is who I am and what I represent. And there's so much more to it. This is. The really down and dirty, you know, if I'm just that sleazy salesperson going out to market saying, okay, here's my product, here's my, there's a lot more to being a successful salesperson than just going out and pitching my pitching.

Yeah. Right. Then

Lisa Raebel: pitching. Yeah.

Leighann Lovely: But, and I, and I will go to my marketing team and say, I just want to make sure that [00:10:00] I'm accurate. In our product, in our persona, in our, and like I said, it's really funny because they always come back and say, well, here's how I would write this. And I'm like, well, that's not how you say it.

That's how you write it.

Lisa Raebel: That's you hit the nail on the head. And this happens. And company after company, after company, sales and marketing are constantly fighting each other because they don't understand each other. And I think that's one thing if audience, if you could walk away with one thing and you have a company that has a sales and marketing department, please.

Just listen to this one piece, the reason marketing people don't understand what it's like to be out to be a salesperson is because I've never been a salesperson. And the reason that sales people don't understand why marketing makes it all pretty and fluffy and stuff is because the, you know, the salespeople don't understand what it's like to have the pressure of, you know, they've got things are going off of, they're going off of like analytics and, you know, all of the different like data [00:11:00] that they had to go off of and just industry standards.

So do this. Do me a favor. If you have a marketing lead and you have a sales lead, please shadow each other for two, three days. Two days. And sales. Hang out with marketing and marketing. Go out into the world and hang out with sales. Go on prospect calls, go on client calls. Hear what they're actually saying.

Because if you're trying to create a marketing inside four walls for a company. And you've never been out into the real world of that organization to talk to the salespeople, like to see what the clients are saying, then it's the same thing and mark and salespeople go, go to marketing meetings and like strategy sessions and say, Hey, you know what?

That sounds great. And this is what the clients are actually looking for. These are the problems that we're solving for our clients. The problem is they don't talk to each other. Right. And I don't understand it. They're on the same road going in the same direction for the same company with the same goals.

And yet, for some reason, they don't want to talk to [00:12:00] each other and they're at odds with each other. It's literally a conversation would solve all of those problems and your sales will increase. I promise.

Leighann Lovely: Right. And you, Lisa, coming from somebody who grew up as a sales, as a salesperson and also now having that strong, you know, amazing marketing while being the rebel behind the rebel marketing, you know, rebel girl marketing.

I mean, that's. That's an amazing ability to have both aspects of that and me being, I will not ever tell anybody that I'm a marketing person, but being able to work closely with my marketing team and see the stuff that they kick back to me and I'm like, no, no, no, no, I'm just looking for validation that we're in alignment and they come back with.

Rewriting my entire pitch and I'm like, how would you go and say that in 20 [00:13:00] seconds? I'm like, it looks beautiful and you did a great job of writing it. But I can't speak that with those big words and pretty fluff. And and then we laugh about it. And that conversation was so eye opening for both of us.

And the fact that that's. Isn't happening, as you just said, isn't happening, but it's crazy,

Lisa Raebel: right? And I've stood in boardrooms and listen to the CEO ask me, like, could you make these two please play nice in the sandbox basically. And that's how I say it. Nicely. He had other words, but it's, and it's literally, I sit there and I listened to these, these two leads.

And I'm just like, and I say that what company do you work for? What is your goal? You trying to grow the business? Do you need more sales? And both of them say, yes, yes, yes. Then what then what, and then I make them shadow each other for a day or two. And it's [00:14:00] amazing when they come back, they go, oh, I didn't understand this.

Oh, I didn't understand that. Oh, I didn't realize how hard sales was. Oh, I didn't realize, you know, if you've never been in sales, you don't understand the emotional. Rollercoaster you go through on a weekly basis. And I think that's what marketing is missing is that they're like, Oh, they're just out there like talking and taking people out for cocktails.

And they're just writing checks. No, it's right. It's hard. So, no,

Leighann Lovely: and ,i,

I completely, it is, and, and again, I talked, you know, on, on our, the, the last episode, when I spoke with Sarah, we talked about the misconception that salespeople are, are out there just having fun and just talking about there is, there is a strategic.

Work that goes into that and into being able to talk to somebody and be able to identify where those pain points are and then help and guide that [00:15:00] client into will. And again. As a true salesperson who wants to help and doesn't want to just have the client sign a check because I'm not interested in somebody buying from me who in a month from now is going to go, I don't, I don't know why we're working together.

I'm not interested in selling something to somebody they don't need. So. Exactly. Guiding, guiding them to figure out. Why and how we can work together, that's going to solve their ultimate problem. Sometimes people don't even know they have a problem until they all of a sudden are working with you and they go, wow, this, the light bulbs just went on.

Yeah.

Lisa Raebel: And I think that's the, that's the really good sales people are strategic listeners. And so that is something I was at a, an event and I was talking to the gentleman who was the keynote speaker. And I'm like, I don't know, cause he was talking about your gift. Like, what is your unique selling proposition?

And I always said mine was the [00:16:00] fact that I've been a salesperson. I've been a marketing director, you know, I've run a marketing division and I've been out there with the quota over my head. Right. And so I understand both aspects of that. And what he said to me was, cause I brought up some of the stuff he was talking about.

He goes, you're a strategic listener. And he goes, and that what's, that's what makes a good salesperson and a good marketing person is because they're listening for those cues. I mean, I turned a two month engagement to a nine month engagement simply by listening to the people that I was at the company.

They, you know, they had an email campaign problem. And it went so much deeper than that. And so once they identified all the, all the holes in their customer experience, and I said, well, your sales aren't falling through in the email. They're falling through much earlier than that. And then much later than that, like they had a bunch of gaps in their, in their client experience.

And they're like, they didn't see it. And, but it was all because you're listening strategically and whether you're a marketer or a salesperson. Strategic [00:17:00] listening, being a strategic listener is a learned skill. It's not like you're either born with it or not. You could learn how to be a strategic listener, right?

Leighann Lovely: And I can identify back to the time where I, where I used to close. And this goes back to my recruiting days, my, my dad used to tell me, you can't listen at all. You're, you, you're horrible. And I used to do, um, interviews. By the phone, and I used to miss so much information, so I started closing my eyes and typing with my eyes closed and then asking because you when you block everything else out and you just start.

Like, really, truly listening now, you can't do that. If you're sitting in front of somebody, you can't close your eyes. They're going to think you're insane

Lisa Raebel: or driving. Don't do that. If you're driving. Right. Don't.

Leighann Lovely: Leanne told me to, um, but you really, you really, if you hyper focus on what people are [00:18:00] saying, like there's so much information now, again, I wouldn't, you know, body language also can say a million and 10.

Body language can say more than words can at times, especially when you're sitting across the room from somebody and you're watching, you know, their eyes roll back and you're like, okay, it's time to move on from this. But now, before we get off on a tangent on that, I want to realign this conversation and talk about brand.

Strategies when it comes to, because you work with individuals, you work with, or not individuals, but you work with. Yeah. Soulpreneurs to, you know, larger organizations. But I want to talk about the importance of making sure that each individual salesperson is representing themselves as a. Individual salesperson at the same time representing the brand that the marketing team has [00:19:00] built and why that's important.

Lisa Raebel: Well, it goes back to the trust factor. I mean, okay. Anybody listening to this podcast, and I know you'll relate to this too, can sit across from somebody who has not said a word yet and you still get the ick. Like, I don't trust this person for a reason. You don't know why it is. They haven't said a word.

Can you picture that person in your head? Can you picture or people in your head over time that you've worked with them? And you're just like, yeah, I don't trust this person. And so that's the personal brand. That's the personal brand of like, are you showing up on time? So there's a lot of things that could set you up for success just by being prepared.

So. Um, that whole aspect of being an individual, you know, are you showing up on time? Are you showing up prepared for the meeting? Are you being a strategic, are you listening strategically? Are you listening and repeating what they say back to them? Are you engaging [00:20:00] with them? Are you smiling? All that body language stuff, right?

And so that's how you become an individual professional that people can trust. I could, I don't know what it is about me, but people tell me things. That I don't know why they're telling me it, but they're, they're like deep and personal and like, like business owners and, you know, CEOs will say stuff to me.

It's like, I don't know why I just told you that I've never told anybody that fear, but it's, it's that persona that you're putting out there. So if you're showing up late and you're not prepared, you're not looking them in the eye and you're not really paying attention. Like. And if, okay, I'm just gonna say this once, if anybody picks up their phone during a sales conversation, I will slap them across the head and stop it, put your phone away, turn it off, put it, keep it in your briefcase, your purse, wherever you're putting it, pocket, you leave that on the table.

That is, first of all, that's the first message to say, I'm talking to you, but somebody more, more important might want to get my attention. So the phone is on the table. And so that [00:21:00] just that one move right there shows that the person you're talking to across from you is more important than anything else.

And that's what builds the trust. That's that individual brand. That's that individual like aspect of like, why am I a better salesperson than somebody else is because you show up mind, body, and spirit to talk to the person that you're talking to. You're not distracted by anything else. That's the one thing.

And then once they trust you, once they have that trust factor, like, I know I'm important, I know this person's going to be taking care of me, then they'll be telling you the stuff to do the selling and do all the branding and all that other stuff that you do. But you got to show up and be trustworthy first.

That is number one.

Leighann Lovely: Absolutely. I, I completely, um, and the cell phone thing that is not just in the people that you meet. For business for my, the greatest piece of [00:22:00] advice anybody has ever given me is that if you sit down and you, this goes back to, okay, I'm going to jump on my soapbox here for just 2 seconds.

So, during the pandemic, we all talked about all of a sudden families were becoming more connected, sitting down and eating dinner together and implementing these new rules of no technology at the table, or there is something to be said. For actually sitting down and unplugging from technology and saying, yes.

I am going to give you my full and undivided attention without having the beeps and bloops and all of these things going off where your attention is being divided. If you and my dad would say this, if you sit down for 15 minutes with your daughter every day and give her your undivided attention with nothing else going on.

He goes, you will have a wonderful, solid relationship. Not to say that I'm ignoring you the rest of [00:23:00] the time, but undivided attention, no TVs, no phones, no nothing. And I will tell you, and I told this story that it's probably been, it's been a couple years cause this was when she was like two or two and a half, I was in the kitchen and she was trying to get my attention and I was on my phone working.

She came up behind me when she was like two and a half and she bit me in the butt. I mean, outright bit me because she couldn't get my attention because I was on my cell phone working and that was

Lisa Raebel: the level she was at. So that was the most convenient place to bite you.

Leighann Lovely: Correct. That's where she was. And it was that moment when I went.

Oh, we have a problem here. It's not her problem. It's mommy's problem. I'm giving her half attention. She, she wants to play and she's going to act out to get there. If we're not, [00:24:00] if we're not fully engaging people and, and I've sat across from business owners who are looking at their phone and who are, and I will tell you, and I've had clients who I'm trying to work with them and they're like, oh, I gotta check this email.

I gotta check. It's, it's horrific. It's absolutely horrific. There's no trust factor there. There's, there's even an ick dislike factor that starts to play in. And as a salesperson, if that's the person you're representing, I wouldn't buy, I wouldn't buy from that person. And

Lisa Raebel: as a salesperson, if that, if you're, if the client is doing that, do you want them as a client?

No, no. Because I think what happens is that we get this quota and I'm always saying there's always this quota as a salesperson. You have to hit these numbers or else, right? As a salesperson, that's a lot of pressure and you're thinking, [00:25:00] well, I could hit my quota. This, this one's out, but they're a total, I can't swear.

Jerk. Right. Let's just use that word. There were different words in my head, but, if they're a total jerk and like, do you want like to be tied to this person for years and years to come? I mean, they're just going to be a pain in the, in the tush. So like not every client is a good client. So it's, it goes both ways.

And what's so interesting is that when I teach solo entrepreneurs, especially and small business owners are like, I just, I don't like sales, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, because it makes me nervous. I get all sweaty and I don't know what to do. And I teach them. If you do all the prep ahead of time and you walk into the conversation, looking for a mutually beneficial converse, like a agreement, you're, that is what makes you confident in sales.

What you sell is worth buying, but the person across the table from you needs to be worth selling to as well. And if you change your mindset to that, people who don't like sales or they, they think they're going to [00:26:00] be slimy or pushy or whatever, because they've had that experience in the past, that is what you do.

And you say, okay, you change your mindset. I'm prepared. I know what I sell is good. I've done my research on this prospect. I know what's going to happen in here. And if you get any instance, it's like. It might not be worth it. It might not be worth it. And you have to take that into consideration. I've literally told somebody across the table for me who just I sat down and the factor was like.

Skyrocketing. And I'm like, how quickly can I get through the sales conversation? But it was, it was set up by, so you didn't really know me that well. Like, oh, oh, you do that. Oh, you should meet my friend, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, I don't think I'm the person for you. Right. Like you we've had five minute conversation.

I said, yeah, but there's a lot of things that I can tell about a person. And I said, and I think what you're looking for is all you're worried about is increasing your revenue. You don't care about the customer and I don't work with people like that. And he was literally offended. And normally I would never, ever, ever, [00:27:00] ever say that about a person.

But what happened was it broke down a barrier and we had a really great conversation. I didn't end up working with this gentleman because it turned out he didn't actually need what I was trying to pitch to him. But at the same time, it's like he, I don't think he realized that he was doing that.

Sometimes the truth hurts, but sometimes the truth is really good. But don't do it if you're working for like, I work for myself. So I only had to report back to myself, but if you're a salesperson reporting back to a sales manager, just be careful. Right.

Leighann Lovely: And that's sometimes the hard truth for yourself or the hard truth for the clients that you're potentially going to sometimes that's maybe not in the moment, but sometimes it's the best possible thing that you can offer somebody that you're choosing not to work with

because they might be stuck on that wheel too. And helping them get off that wheel so that they can properly find, [00:28:00] if they do truly need assistance with your offering, they might be able to then properly find somebody that does match with them. And I've done the same thing. I've turned down business because what they want is not what or how I felt I best matched with.

Right. That individual. And again, you're right. If you're working for a large corporation, they may not be so keen on you saying, yeah, I don't really want to work with you. But if you are, you know, if you do have the liberties to be able to say, I'm not sure that our services right for you, sometimes that's the most liberating thing that you can do is to be able to walk away and free yourself up for the proper right clients who are in alignment with your brands and with what you're, with what you stand for, right?

Lisa Raebel: I actually inherited an account. It was a very, it was a large account. It was a nice commission, all that stuff. Right. But I always put that [00:29:00] appointment at the end of my day because the guy irritated me so much. Like you can love me or you can hate me, but don't love and hate me in the same sentence. I don't know how to process that either.

We're doing a great job or we're not doing a great job, but like. It was, it was, it was torture. It was like literally torture. And I was assigned this person. I didn't sell this person, but it was just so funny. Cause like my dentist is like, what have you been doing? I'm like, I, I literally got had to get a new crown because I was like clenching my teeth so hard with this client.

I'm just like, and I don't, I swear to God, I was God. That's how I probably had an ulcer. He was terrible to work with, but. It was, it's hard because I was in corporate America. I was assigned to this person and my manager was like, you know, this is a big client and you have to be nice to him kind of a thing.

And I was just like, I couldn't stand him. I couldn't stand it. But at the same time, it's like I was working for somebody else. I

Leighann Lovely: had no choice. And that is sometimes the situation we're in. So Lisa, this conversation has [00:30:00] been so absolutely amazing. We are coming to time. I mean, but we've hit some really awesome,

topics. , I mean, the no like and trust factor, being able to, you know, brand yourself properly to, the way that, you know, sales and marketing should be working together. And honestly, if they were just having that conversation, how they would be able to work together. I mean, it's just really been a great conversation.

I want to give you the opportunity to read, you know, tell the audience. You know, a little bit specifically about what your business offers and how they could reach out to you. So this is your shameless plug. Um, take it as you will. Yes. Take, you know, take the time to, to, you know, tell us, you know, how we can reach out to you if, if somebody wanted to

Lisa Raebel: do so.

Yeah, so if any of the stuff that we talked about today kind of hit a nerve with you. Um, like the whole understanding sales and marketing or the 5 questions I talked to you about that build a foundation. If like, you don't know the answer to those questions. That's what I do. [00:31:00] I help people who are subject matter experts in whatever that they do, but don't they know they need marketing, but they don't know where to start.

I help them start into that. Like understanding what marketing is, because you might've taken a class in high school or college, but that's not going to get you very far with your business. So my job is to help small businesses stay in business by using strategic marketing that fits for their business.

And so I can do one on one strategy sessions, or I have a one to few that's going to be starting in Q1 of 2024. So if you want to reach out to me and find out more, it's Lisa at rebelgirlmarketing.com or visit my website. Same thing, rebel girl marketing. com. And I love to have a conversation with you.

Leighann Lovely: Awesome. Again, Lisa, thank you so much for joining me. This has been awesome.

Thanks.

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