Understanding Motivations behind Conversations

Join Meg Schmitz and I for another amazing conversation as we dive into importance of building relationships and understanding the motivations behind the conversation. She shared her unique approach to problem-solving to understand the underlying goals and needs of the other party. Meg emphasizes that everyone is in sales, and building a relationship based on trust is crucial for success. By ensuring that the other party believes in the intention of solving their problem, closing deals and achieving desired outcomes becomes easier.

Contact Meg Schmitz

Website – https://megschmitz.com/

LinkedIN - https://www.linkedin.com/in/megschmitz/

Podcast – Free Agent - https://megschmitz.com/podcast/

 

Leighann Lovely: Meg. I'm so excited to have you here today with me.

Meg Schmitz: Thank you, Leighann for having me on today.

Leighann Lovely: Yes. So Meg Schmidt is joining me. She is the founder of take the leap. Franchising Meg is a 30 plus year veteran in the world of franchising sales, which is really a matchmaking for both franchising companies and future owners for Meg selling is not a job.

It is an art form of listening and understanding the [00:02:00] goal of both sides to ensure that no one is pressured and everyone wins. You also, um, are often referred to as the franchise fashionista. I am. Awesome. Well, again, I'm so excited to have you here and talk about sales.

Meg Schmitz: Yeah, let's talk about sales. I, it's something that I graduated from college thinking I would never do because I graduated from college with a degree in counseling.

And then I, I did an internship, this is really interestingly, and I did an intern internship at Northwestern Memorial Hospital in Chicago on the psych ward and it scared the heck out of me. Certifiably really crazy. And so I thought, Hmm, maybe there's another way I can monetize this. And so for a lot of us who have a degree like that, going into sales then creates an art form of sorts where it's, it's very [00:03:00] similar to therapy.

Leighann Lovely: I it's so funny because as you're saying this, I'm thinking, well, half the time I'm a salesperson and half the time I'll go into a meeting and as you're going through the discovery, Because what we're asking questions that bring people to their pain points, bring people to their, their need and depending on what kind of sales you're in, that can be a heavy load.

For somebody to, to talk about it, you know, depending on the subject, especially if you're going into a large organization, who's like, oh, I need to fix this with my H. R. process or my computer. And often you become the, the counselor that, or the trusted advisor. That they literally just unload on and you walk out going, Oh, that was, that was a lot.

Meg Schmitz: Yeah, but it's getting them to trust that you have something that they, they [00:04:00] know they need. And we can talk about price and what happens with that negotiation, but, um, getting. Getting past the formality of sitting across the table from each other and starting to ask those counseling questions. So why are we having this conversation?

Why, why did you invite me in today? What, what kind of problems are you noting? And have you tried any other alternative? You know, all the questions to ask, but you start to get the other person or parties to be honest about why this is a pain point. And then you know, too, with Simon Sinek and why it starts with, so what do you do?

Oh, how did you get to do that? Or how do you do that? And then there's the, the essence of it is why do you do that? So why, why are we having this conversation is one of my favorite questions to ask.

Leighann Lovely: And so when you ask that question, [00:05:00] what do you find is the,

is there a default answer that people go to, or is that something that really opens up? I mean, because that's obviously an open ended question. Why, why are we having this conversation? What, what is it that you need

Meg Schmitz: from me? My own business therapist likes to ask the question, so what's your problem? Talk about open ended and it's a great question to ask.

So what's your problem? Versus my approach is very much softer. So why are we having this conversation? They know that there's something they need. They need brochures. They need signs made. They need a new bus to take people to a. Um, whatever to get people off campus and going to and from event event planners, they have to ask those questions all the time.

So why are we having this conversation? What do you want to accomplish? And we're all in sales. We're all in sales. And [00:06:00] the easiest way to clinch the sale is to have a relationship dynamic with the other party that they trust. Our efforts are in the best intention of solving their problem. And that's, that's how to get the dollars in the deal.

Leighann Lovely: Okay, so I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a moment, Meg. So you ask me, or I, I'm your salesperson. I come in and I say, okay, so Meg, why are we having this problem? And you, your answer, well, Leighann, um, I need XYZ. As that salesperson, my next go to is, oh, great Meg. I can solve that problem. Here's my solution.

Meg Schmitz: Sometimes you need to dig and dig and dig a little bit more before volunteering that you have the answer. I I like to do [00:07:00] that, to get them to open up further. And so right before when we hit record on this, you asked me about something that I know very well. And so if I were to put on that hat and say, and I did this with a young man, actually, I've been working with him for two years.

We've all had this, where they're not ready to pull the trigger, the time isn't right, the money isn't in order, um, corporate isn't saying yes at this time of year because we're in budget shutdown. Okay, why are we having the conversation right now? Have you, have you talked to other vendors about this?

What solutions has anyone else come up with, or what have you already paid for? That he's like, Oh man, that was a waste of money. That was a waste of time. Give me some background on this whole problem and what types of solutions you have sought out already. Then, then you're in the cat bird seat and can say, okay, yeah.

I have a [00:08:00] solution for you based on everything that you've just said to me. I can save you the time and aggravation and fill in the blank of whatever they said their, their yuck was, but asking more questions about what they've already done to, to talk to other companies in the product or service wasn't the right thing.

That's why they're talking to you is that they're, they're still searching.

Leighann Lovely: Right. And do you think that that is a symptom of some of the older generation of offering a solution to, and maybe it's not a generational thing or a training thing or, and it's probably a training thing, but do you think that that is why there are a lot of misses in sales?

Meg Schmitz: To me in preparation for this. I was thinking about you yesterday and I was thinking about the different techniques that I as a 60-year-old who's been in sales since I was 24, when I graduated from college at 22, so I've been in sales since I [00:09:00] was 22 there. There definitely are different approaches.

There's Zig Ziglar and there's, I mean, go down the generational list of books, , the Self-help books on sales, right. Not only do younger people and I'm working with three couples right now that are 40 and under their approach is different from my standard approach. So I find myself every day just trying to twisting a bit so that I'm, I'm adapting more to their style.

Let's call it that. I do think that there are generational style differences.

Leighann Lovely: And in those generational styles, do you think that and yes, there's definitely,

as the younger come in and here's what I love is being a salesperson is that I can learn from the older salespeople's approaches. I can learn from people who are my age and I can [00:10:00] learn from the younger generation coming in because there is just fresh blood and they have these. I'm like, wow, that's a really good technique that I never thought of the in sales.

It's a constant. You can learn from. Every single age person that comes in with these new techniques and not that you can't, you know, in other industries, but, you know, accounting, it's like, well, it's pretty black and white, like, this is the way that you do things and trying to change processes. It's much more difficult to do because it has been proven to, to work this way.

They're not as adaptable, but in sales and in certain industries, it's like, wow, you can pivot really quickly and figure out like this new approach works. This new approach works. Like the robocalls don't work. Why haven't we figured that out? This is, I know it's maybe a little bit new, but it. As soon as I hear a robocall, I hang up on [00:11:00] you.

Anyways, I digress. Um, I get like eight of them a day, which I, I absolutely, I love, but there are core skills that have through and through throughout history just worked in sales and more recent years. I think that we have figured out that

in your words of what you kind of wrote to me prior to this. Embracing your solution, being who you are, has become the

10 to 1, yes, the absolute difference. So I guess my question to you is, you had mentioned we're, we're all selling, but what is the difference between a great seller [00:12:00] and a mediocre?

Meg Schmitz: I could make so many analogies and I'll, I'll start in a second, but I think that listening active listening, caring. So why is this a problem?

Why, why hasn't it been solved yet? With that knit brow and the care and concern in the face and, um, the, there, I think in sales. Unlike accounting where it's standard, knowing the opposition, knowing, knowing the age, knowing as much as you can find out about the person sitting across from you, how old, if you're selling to a 72 year old that, and I'm 60, that's different from selling to someone who's 32, you have to know who the other, who the opposition is and one of the, one of the best tools.

Out there, [00:13:00] I think people don't fully utilize is LinkedIn, because You're putting in information that your colleagues will call you out on if, if your LinkedIn profile isn't correct versus what you put in a resume, for example, that you can put anything you want in a resume, but what goes in your LinkedIn will scroll down, read more about the 10 different past positions, read more about the.

Different affiliations, the six degrees of separation, the six degrees of Kevin Bacon were all related somehow you can really make a conversation start with 98 percent of the people out there. If you're good at your job and and are learning about who you're going to meet with ahead of time. It's not a cold call then, then it's a warm conversation.

That's such a key differentiator. I used to do cold calls all the time. We didn't have tools like we have now to do recon on people on [00:14:00] the internet. You can learn so much.

Leighann Lovely: Well, and that, I mean, you, you absolutely hit it on the head. Like the, I mean, the no like and trust factor, if you can come in with relatability.

Um, having some, and that's as, as a new salesperson coming in, especially, you know, they're like, wow, how do I, how do I connect with these, especially as a new young salesperson coming in when you don't have a, you know, 20 year or 15 year history of, of, you know, Oh, I know that author, or I know I recognize that name when you don't have that bucket to pull from of, and I remember being.

You know, new to sales where I was like, I have no idea what these people are talking about. And I feel like I should like, but that's that world, the experience, that learned experience where you're like, how do I, how do I, how do I jump on the bandwagon that everybody else seems to be on in this room, but I'm [00:15:00] completely lost.

And that's where it is of know your audience, know what room you're walking into. Are you walking into a young professionals? Or are you walking into a heavy hitter? These people are all above the age of 40, have 20 years of experience, are all, you know, high level, it doesn't mean you shouldn't walk in that room.

It just means that you should walk in that room a little bit different. And don't act like you don't belong.

Meg Schmitz: Oh, well, and that gets to a phrase that's very common these days. And people are definitely afraid of the imposter syndrome. We've all been imposters our entire lives. We have not known, we have not known how to do something.

We've not had a knowledge base. And so from the minute we were born, we were accumulating experience. So we've all been imposters our entire life. When I gave birth to my son 33 years ago, he did not know that I'd never done this [00:16:00] before. I was an imposter. I

Leighann Lovely: never thought about that before. You're right.

When my, my daughter looks up at me like, mommy, what am I, what am I supposed to do? And I looked at her and go. Well, you're supposed to do this. And in my brain, I'm thinking, I have no idea what you're supposed to

Meg Schmitz: do. So we've all been there. I remember my first job, I was selling temporary services in downtown Chicago.

And I remember walking into a building across the street. I had a territory that was right there at state and Madison. And so I go up into an office. building. I remember this one guy saying, why should I buy from you? You're no different from manpower or what's the difference? And I remember saying nothing.

I remember being so caught off guard that I was embarrassed and you know, and he was Kind enough to say, I can see that [00:17:00] you're embarrassed, but don't be embarrassed. You're young and this is probably your first job. I said, well, it's actually my first week of my first new job.

And he, he was so kind about it, but it helped me to realize that. Yeah, we're all going to go into phases in our life, whether it's a job or a relationship or something where you don't know. And, and the softer approach is if you're in a networking situation, just to sit back and listen and learn and don't be afraid to confess that you're brand new.

It, it is, I remember a different sales experience where. I was absolutely humiliated out of my mind by the guy whose office I was sitting in, and he walked me out. Don't call him my company again. I was so mortified. I'm, I'm like the most right person. I don't do wrong. I do right things. And there had been something that, [00:18:00] that obviously ticked him off about, I think it was some of the reconnaissance I had done at the office about what other departments in his company had done before hiring temporary services.

And I called out a dollar amount. And that's, that's what got him is that somehow I'd done more research and it maybe caught him off guard, but it humiliated me and said, don't come back. I could get into the details to make it more clear what the whole scenario was. It doesn't really matter. Sometimes we get humiliated.

Sometimes we get the benefit of someone who's willing to say it's okay. But if you're going into sales. toughen up because you're going to get crazy stuff flung at you. And half the time you're going to have to tap dance and say, I don't know, but the best answer is I will get back to you on that versus trying to make something up.

Leighann Lovely: Absolutely. It is better to tell somebody that you don't know the answer than to, to make something [00:19:00] up

or You know, and here's the thing in today's world. If somebody were to act like that and escort you out, you should not be ashamed or you should not be embarrassed. They should be ashamed of themselves because that behavior it's, it, it should not happen. Salespeople do their job. They're told to do that.

You know, they're under a pressure. By the company to meet a certain quota, they're going to go out. They're going to do that quota. Now, unless obviously the salesperson walks in and does something egregious or says something to, you know, humiliate or whatever it might be. But that and I got, I, I made this mistake.

This was truly a mistake. I called the company and got her to click. And I was like, oh, okay, picked up. I called the company again. I heard a hello. And I was like, hello. And then I heard a [00:20:00] click and I was like, oh, this keeps getting hung up. Like disconnected. I called again. I heard a click and I'm like, I don't know what's going on.

I called back again and the guy said, stop effing calling me. And then he went as far to go on the company webpage. And put a review saying that the company I work for, which are our company name must have been popping up on like caller ID caller ID and put a review that I was harassing and I was like, and my boss, he's like, were you, what happened here?

And I was like, I thought I was being disconnected. I'm like, I truly did not realize that, like, all the guy had to do was like, pick it up and say, I'm not interested. Instead of, like, just keep picking it [00:21:00] up, like, and clicking or just let it go to voicemail, right? I mean, that that behavior. Is like, inappropriate behavior and for somebody to just keep hanging up.

How was I to know? And

Meg Schmitz: that's the beauty of being in sales too, is that there's a deep, deep sea out there. There are a lot of fish in it. Don't take it personally, move on. There are other opportunities that await, but that's part of being young too, young and aggressive. And I've got a quota and I'm going to get through.

And sometimes you just. Let it go. I think that's really the beauty of having years and years of experience is that you've been a consumer, you've been sold to. I'm in sales. I've been [00:22:00] sold to. I know what I don't like and I'm more likely to offer some forgiveness, but there are times when caller ID, it's a beautiful thing to your point, just let it go to voicemail.

One of the, one of the great, um, technology feats these days is when it tips you off on your phone to tell you it's probable spam. I love that. Right. I'm not going to answer. Right.

Leighann Lovely: It does. It says it. I remember the first time that it popped up and it said. Potentially does it say potentially? Yeah, and I was like, oh, should I answer this?

Like, potentially spam. I'm like, that's awesome. However, on the flip side of that. I wonder how my phone number, my business phone number comes up. Am I being marked as potentially spam? You know, you, you never know what that may look like to the other [00:23:00] person.

Meg Schmitz: Well, now I had an interesting situation happen where it came up as potential spam.

They did leave me a voice message and it was, it was my doctor's office. It came up that way. So anyway, then, you know, there are all sorts of anomalies that are out there for the, for the sake of getting the sale done. It's just easier to let it go. Let it go. Don't take it personally move on is what I mean.

Let go move on. Don't take it personally, you're going to be young and aggressive or you're going to be older and motivated and people are going to be offended. I think people are more offended by little things now than ever before. Don't take it personally. Just don't take it personally and move on.

You're selling a commodity product or service. There are other fish in the sea. Absolutely.

Leighann Lovely: Now, you mentioned something. When you were young, [00:24:00] you didn't know your difference. So, how would somebody, and why is that so, I know why it's so important, but. For some of those younger people coming in, why is that so important?

Why is knowing your difference, knowing your why, knowing your product, why is

Meg Schmitz: that so important? Well, you get in, you get commoditized, compared, I have people do this all the time with my, my franchise investigation process. I want them to compare and contrast companies against each other. Well, there are three different residential cleaning companies.

I represent 12 different senior care companies. What's the difference? Well, they'll all tell you very clearly. They there's a difference from one to the next. And so for each of us. In the world of dating, you're in sales, you're, you're competing against. So what's your difference? Well, why does it matter to the other party?

It goes back [00:25:00] again to what matters to the other party so that you can appropriately sell yourself with sell your difference. If you know what they need and you, you really can negotiate just about anything. If you know enough from the other party about what is going to get them to say yes.

Leighann Lovely: And as an individual, and this is what I struggled with, as an individual presenting.

The company is obviously important, but people don't buy a company. So how do I sell when people nowadays want to buy

Meg Schmitz: from people? Well, so the, the, even in the work that I do. And it's a crowded field now. Everybody seems like is jumping into franchise sales because it's been hot over the last three years.

There are brokers everywhere. [00:26:00] There, and I don't consider myself a broker. Then there are consultants. People who really try to make a match. Well, I'm not just a consultant. I've been a business owner, employer. I'm an angel investor. I do this, that, and the other thing. I could go on about, I'm a podcaster, I'm an author.

Some people don't care. They want to know what kind of experience What kind of shortcuts are there, Meg? Well, if you've done all of this, what can you teach me so that I don't fall into the same pit, the same trap? If you're, if you're different from everybody else, who's out there, how did you get to be different and why does it matter to me so that that is unfortunately something that day in day out, as you do your job, you'll accumulate that experience.

You're, you're not born with it. You do have to actually try, get out there and. And build your, your quiver of [00:27:00] arrows and those come from experience,

Leighann Lovely: right? So despite the fact that you work with, you know, people who are franchise owners and there is a brand, there is a, um, you know, a solution or how do I put this?

There's a brand associated with those franchises. They knit their own persona personality into those brands. Is that what I'm

Meg Schmitz: understanding? If you think about it, every franchise That you've ever visited and it's something like one out of 12 businesses is a, is a franchise, but a lot of them operate as if they're a little boutique practice, whether it's a B2B bookkeeping.

A lot of people don't know that there are franchises out there that do that. . So, if you think about it, every business. That is a franchise started once upon a time as a little bitty idea [00:28:00] that was Leighann sitting at her desk, talking to her husband, having a whiskey at night, thinking throughout the day and weeks, you know, and I could build a better mousetrap.

I've got an idea. So every idea, every business starts with this little nut of an idea, and then it. It builds into something much bigger. So we all, we don't all want to grow our business into a franchise, but some of those business models are, they can be duplicated and then they can be easily replicated.

And that's when you start to get the, the notion that the genetic code of this idea really is a franchise franchisable business model. So the So many different business opportunities out there and so many founders of companies that have to, we all have to figure out what [00:29:00] is our difference. So for an example.

I represent at least 12 senior care, companion care, long term care, medical, non medical franchises. So they will parse out, well, we do it differently because we recommend that our franchise owners hire or, or contract with seniors. It's a population of people who is getting out of the workforce. They still have gas in the tank.

That's our differentiator. We're going to call ourselves seniors, seniors, helping seniors. Right. For example, that's just one, one way for a crowd in a crowded field to differentiate yourself. It's in your name, then it's in your branding. It runs through everything that you do and that's what you hang your hat on.

Leighann Lovely: That's awesome. Well, Meg, you have given so many and, and I've thrown some pretty hard questions at you, [00:30:00] but you've given so many gold nuggets of, of amazing information here. I really appreciate you coming on. If somebody wanted to reach out to you, um, to talk about franchise opportunities or connect with you on LinkedIn, how would they go about doing that?

Meg Schmitz: So it, I'm easy to find on LinkedIn, it's Meg Schmitz and, um. I'll pop right up. The Franchise Guru is a nickname that I was given by the Wall Street Journal, but you'll see that on LinkedIn. So you can connect with me there. I also have a website in my name, megschmitz. com. I have blogs and podcasts, and I really gear my website to be informational.

Um, I am an entrepreneur besides I don't advocate franchising for everybody. You're an entrepreneur and have curiosity about a franchise. It's there are a lot of different ways to get into business and it's not a one size fits all conversation. So I'm very much following my own advice here. And that is to lean in, listen, ask the right questions so that we can get to the bottom of why are we [00:31:00] having this conversation?

Leighann Lovely: Perfect. Meg, again, thank you. Um, Meg also has the free agent podcast. Um, again, this will all be in the show notes, uh, her LinkedIn, uh, will be there. Her website, everything will be in the show notes. So again, Meg, thank you so much. I really enjoyed our conversation.

Meg Schmitz: Thank you, Leighann. It's always great to spend time with you.

 

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