Love Your Sales

From Coffee Beans to Dream Homes: If You Understand Sales, You Can Apply It Anywhere.

In this captivating episode of Love Your Sales, I’m joined by the incredibly versatile entrepreneur Leah Beaulieu. Leah shares her rollercoaster journey of starting various businesses, from a coffee house sparked by a love for coffee to a unique venture into the world of commercial kitchens and cupcake trucks. She dives into the lessons learned, the importance of adaptability, and her eventual pivot into real estate, all while emphasizing the entrepreneurial spirit. Her story is not just about the success and challenges of her ventures; it's a testament to the power of cross-selling, understanding your market, and leveraging sales and marketing skills to thrive. Tune in to this episode for an inspiring conversation that explores the true essence of entrepreneurship and the drive that keeps innovators like Leah pushing forward.
Contact Leah –
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/leahmbeaulieu
Website - https://www.coast2coastprop.com/
E-mail - Leah@coast2coastprop.com
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@coast2coastproperties
 
Ready to grow your business? Schedule a call with us today - Book Appointment
 
Special Thank you to our Sponsor Genhead – www.genhead.com
 
Robb Conlon – Intro and outro – Westport Studio - https://www.westportstudiosllc.com/
 
The Brave Ones – Instrumental Version Song by Jan Sanejko - https://artlist.io/royalty-free-music/song/the-brave-ones/119489
 
 
Leighann Lovely: Welcome to another episode of Love Your Sales. Today, I am joined by Leah Bollier, Realtor with Coast to Coast Properties at EXP Realty. With a background in sales and marketing, she has owned and operated several businesses over the past 15 years.
Starting new ventures is her, is a passion of Leah's and she understands the necessity to be able to pivot while running a business. Leah believes everyone should seek their passion while [00:02:00] understanding running a business can be challenging.
Welcome Leah. I'm so excited to have this conversation with you today.
Leah Beaulieu: I'm excited. Also, for having me on the podcast.
Leighann Lovely: Yeah, no, I'm, I'm very excited to talk with you because you are, well, kind of a serial entrepreneur, a passion of yours, as you know, I just mentioned in your bio. Um, so why don't we, you know, jump in, when did you first get the itch to start, you know, your first business?
Leah Beaulieu: It's really just kind of crazy. I mean, I remember whenever, you know, Starbucks and I'm from Columbia area. So like Atlanta bread was big back in the day and I spent tons of money, just like we all do still drinking coffee and having my lattes and breakfast every day. And my husband and I had been out of town and it was like, we were coming back.
We had a long drive and I thought, you know, [00:03:00] I think I'm going to open a coffee house. And he said, I don't think so. And I said, no, I really think this is what I'm supposed to do. I was like, I spend so much money on coffee. Like I may as well own my own place. I mean, at least I understand what everybody enjoys.
And so the craziest thing is back then, because this was in early 2006. There wasn't as much information as there is on the internet, you know, like we still had Barnes Noble, we still had Books A Million, and they were all kind of books to read. And so, I literally went to Barnes Noble and picked up a book that said how to open a coffeehouse, and I read it in an entire weekend.
And, I thought, I think I can do this. I don't know how I'm going to do it. I didn't have any experience. I
Leighann Lovely: It's so funny [00:04:00] that just, you know, what, with 2006, so what, less than 20 years ago, 18, 18 years ago, that is where we learned. That's how we got it. And I have a book. What is it? Um, you remember the books for dummies?
Yeah, right. So I, I think I have like three or four of those. I think my, one of my girlfriends bought me a how to cook potatoes, like a book for dummies, all the different, that's, that's the reality of. You know, 18 years, 20 years ago, that's how you figured out how to do something, right? No, and just think how far we've come now You can literally ask and I don't want to say her name too loud or she'll start talking to me But you know Alexa like waiting for her to go.
Yes Come here, right? You can literally say that and she'll spit out You know, an answer, and that can be a starting point of, oh, that's [00:05:00] what I need to Google. Next is how do I set up an LLC? How do I but if you didn't know the right person, you didn't even know where to begin to
Leah Beaulieu: know. And, you know, and I'm.
I'm older. So obviously I remember a lot. And back then, do you remember online forums? Like, they would have, you didn't have, Facebook wasn't that big back then. So you didn't have Facebook groups that you could go and get opinions on, like, how to run a coffeehouse, how to run a boutique, or how to run really any business.
And there were several, um, popular online coffee forums and that was what I did. I joined a forum and I would just read thread by thread by thread, like what these people were having success in, like what were the best products to use. Today, I could type it into chat GPT and probably have 10 pages of information in like a [00:06:00] matter of minutes.
Leighann Lovely: I live in chat GPT. I'll even ask, like, I'll even, and I, I, I refer to her as a her. I don't know why I'll ask her. Can you help me with this? And, you know, she spits back like, Oh, well, yes, of course I can help you with this. Give me more detail about X, Y, Z. And I'm like, Oh, Oh, okay. I feel like I'm having a conversation with a real person.
Leah Beaulieu: I know. I know it's
Leighann Lovely: crazy. Right. I know. So, so you opened up and let me just go back really quick. The fact that your husband, while you're his answer. No, you're not. Nah.
Leah Beaulieu: He, he was shocked and that's like, this is, this is easy. You know, back then I had a 401k. I had been in sales and marketing for 16 years with a company.
So, I mean, I pretty, you know, I had enough. Um, and then I also, I've had, I will say I've had [00:07:00] fabulous mentors in my life. Um, and I used to visit a little restaurant not too far from where my office was located and I went in there and I talked to the chef and I was like, Hey, so like, I have this great idea.
And he's like, what? And I said, well, I want to open a coffee house, but I don't know anything about the restaurant business. Like, I've never waited tables. I've never been in food and Bev whatsoever. And he said, you know, um, I don't know what to tell you. He's like, it's hard. Like, I don't know that you want to get into it.
I mean, he listened and it was a great conversation. And then it was probably four or five days later, he called and he said, I tell you what, why don't you come into my cafe and you can open for breakfast and coffee. I will teach you everything because he was only open for lunch.
[00:08:00] So it was fabulous.
He brought me in. I bought all my equipment. I set everything up. He helped me. He taught me everything there was to learn about running a kitchen, how to operate the equipment. And that was, that was the beginning.
Leighann Lovely: And how did you know him? Did you? I ate
Leah Beaulieu: lunch at his restaurant like every other day. I'd been a customer of his for years. Um, and you know, he was, He was an incredible chef. He still is an incredible chef today. Um, and was just very willing to show me the ropes.
Leighann Lovely: And that's awesome. And sometimes that's all it takes is somebody willing to say, well, let me show you.
Yes. So you had the sales and marketing piece, which is what a lot of entrepreneurs are lacking. They have the vision [00:09:00] of I'm going to make X and Y. Widgets or I'm going to make this product. How do you think that helped you when it came to opening your first business?
Leah Beaulieu: Well, I think I understood like people have to know who you are.
I mean, it's fine to make a widget, but if you don't get out and put that widget where people can see it and understand how it operates, then. It's just a widget in your house that you love and that you enjoy. So, you know, we would hold free events like on Saturdays, people could come in and taste everything.
Now, you have such an advantage because there's like so many farmers markets, so many platforms, you know, um, dip and shop events that you can go to. You could put your product everywhere. And not only that you have Facebook, you have Instagram, you have TikTok. I mean, we only had Facebook. I don't [00:10:00] even know how we survived.
Leighann Lovely: Right. People had to actually like walk around and get out of their house and research where they were going to go and where they liked to go. Right. Like you couldn't just look it up on your phone and see who had the five star review and then show up there. So. A lot of, you know, and there are a lot of entrepreneurs out there or people who are, you know, have this great idea and they are of the mindset.
If I build it, people will come. Well, right.
Leah Beaulieu: Yeah. And we can thank Field of Dreams for that. No, I mean, that was, that was like the ultimate, but in reality, it's not really the case if you don't put yourself out there. So, I mean, like I said, today we have so many platforms that we can You know, cross market on TikTok is tremendous that we don't even understand the value of that.
But just being able to [00:11:00] have several different, whether it's groups, you know, you've set up a business page for your widget or your restaurant or whatever it is that you want to go into. And then you. Market that on your personal page and then you put it in group pages, you know, you have to be able to put your information out there everywhere.
 So that's amazing. So let's fast forward. Now you've owned this for a while. What comes next?
Leah Beaulieu: So, at that point in time, um, we went straight into the recession. And I remember the headlines on the newspapers couldn't have been any worse. Don't spend 4. 50 on a Starbucks drink because gas was astronomical.
That was when the hurricane had hit.
So, the headline was killing us, right? And I had been in it for three years and was exhausted. So I, I did have a business partner at that time [00:12:00] who, who was fortunately wanting to stay in the business. So she bought my half out. Um, and most entrepreneurs know you don't ever get back the majority of the money that you put into some ventures.
It just depends on what it is. So that was a tough lesson. And, you know, fast forward a couple of years, several years, we moved to the Charleston area and, um, I jumped back into food and Bev again, I, you know, I was laughing and I said something about it when it gets in your blood, like you can't get it out.
Leighann Lovely: There's a lot of people, you know, they, once you get the, the into something, the itch for something, the passion, the love, it's just. You can't, you can't get away from it. You just keep for some reason, either getting pulled back into it or, you know, there's that like, wow, I liked it, [00:13:00] but then there's always that.
I don't know. How long do I like it?
Leah Beaulieu: Right. Right. Right. It's like it has a lifespan. Right. Just like with anything. I mean, it's really no different than you being in a position with a company. You know, you may be just in sales and marketing, but you may decide you've had enough of that life being in sales and marketing.
Maybe you want to lead the team of sales and marketing. Maybe you want to move into a higher position. So when you feel like you're capable of being in that position, then it propels you to move forward to something different.
Leighann Lovely: So you, so did you start another?
Leah Beaulieu: I did. And this one, I actually went a little bit further.
So, um, this one started with cakes and cupcakes and I taught myself how to decorate cakes with fondant. Thanks to my daughter, she wanted [00:14:00] me to make a birthday cake for a friend of hers, but she was like, I want it to be covered in fondant. So that's the only thing you can do. And I thought, I don't even know how to do this.
Then we have YouTube, right? Because like you can find anything on YouTube. Right. Like you just jump into YouTube and you just. And so I did, and I think it's probably a good thing I've deleted those pictures because they were the most god awful games that I first started with. But, you know, as with anything, over time you get better, right?
So then I had the brainchild of, I wanted a cupcake trailer, thought it would be fun, and I wanted it to be an old Shasta camper. So My husband and I talked about it, and it was like, well, how do we start this? Like, what's the best way? And again, I love to do research, and I love to figure anything out. So, I go to [00:15:00] just looking, um, at commercial kitchens, because I knew by state regulations, you couldn't have a food truck unless you had a commercial kitchen.
And at that time, this was 2014, There weren't that many here in the Charleston area. Again, another brain job. Well, this has got to be easy. Let's just go ahead and open a commercial kitchen. And back then, um, Craigslist was huge, right? Like, you could actually trust stuff that was on Craigslist. I'm not saying that you can't, but, you know, there was a way to navigate that site.
And we posted an ad. Hey, we're looking to open a commercial kitchen. Like, who would be, who's interested in, you know, who needs a space for a kitchen? We can serve food trucks, caterers, bakers, you know, any type of food business. And we [00:16:00] got a lot of response. And so then whenever we had the response, it was like, okay, now we have to find the place.
Because we knew it was something that was feasible, right? There was a demand for it. So we started looking around the area, and we were fortunate enough to find a restaurant that already existed, had all the furniture in the front, had like a thousand square foot kitchen in the back, which is highly uncommon in any food business, and had all of the equipment.
So I contacted, luckily, it was, um. owned by a local guy. So I didn't really have to deal with the national firm. We tried and it was crazy. The lease was like 60 pages long and we were like, it's like I'm signing over my children.
It was very intimidating. But anyway. So I talked [00:17:00] to this gentleman and he's like, I don't understand what you want to do. It doesn't make any sense to me. And he made me come up with a business plan. Now, for me, I am not a business plan person and I know everybody says you have to have a business plan. It wasn't how I operated.
I figured I'm going to jump into it and then I'm going to figure it out. But he did require me to sit down and put it all on paper exactly how it was going to work. So we, um, we're actually. We had fabulous friends in the area and they jumped in and helped us clean the entire space because it had been shut down for a while and we opened in 2 weeks and we had the Department of health and environmental control come in and we went through the regulations and everything that was required.
And we were up just the
Leighann Lovely: commercial kitchen. Wow. That is, that is amazing to get that up. Now you and I talked before. So [00:18:00] not only did you get the commercial kitchen up, but now fast forward and this commercial kitchen that you're selling cupcakes or I'm sorry, you had the commercial kitchen so that you could have the truck.
Yes. What now you, you also now this became another coffee house. Yes, it
Leah Beaulieu: did.
Leighann Lovely: So,
Leah Beaulieu: you know, at that time, um, food trucks were really just starting, and in the Charleston area, there were only like 20 of us. So, I mean, it was fabulous because we were busy, and now there's probably over 100 or 150 food trucks here.
So, we get into the cupcake trailer, and we're doing, at that time, what they called food truck rodeos or food truck festivals. So we would, all the food trucks would line up on a Saturday and, you know, you're open for business and you're selling food and the people here love it everywhere. They love them because you just [00:19:00] get to hang out and try everything.
So, our first event, we sold out in like 600 cupcakes in a 4 hour period, which was crazy. Right. Um, but it led to more business. So then I started, I was still learning how to do cakes and, you know, my friends were great. They were like, Oh, hey, I want this cake. Can you make this cake? So I was like, okay, sure.
Um, so then I got super busy. So then it was like, okay, well, the front of the restaurant is available and it's just sitting there. So, I mean, I've already had a coffee house at one time. Why not open another one? And then I would be there to work on cakes and cupcakes and I could get ready because, you know, I was spending, you You know, I've been till nine or 10 o'clock at night trying to get all these things baked.
And I have two kids, you know, I mean, I had two kids in high school at this point in time. So it was like, I need to be home sometime. So [00:20:00] you,
Leighann Lovely: so you took your space. Which started making money your cupcake truck, which was already sounds like making money. And so you were making your, you were, you had 2 businesses basically.
That were generating revenue. In a very short period of time because you're obviously very business savvy woman who was able to flip those both into profitable spaces and when you have. And so if I'm understanding, the only reason that you had the commercial space, that kitchen was because it was a regulation in order to have that truck.
Leah Beaulieu: That's correct.
Leighann Lovely: I mean, that that is. It's brilliant, it's a brilliant sales, like sales entrepreneur
marriage in, in utilizing basically all [00:21:00] of the space available to you, you know, and, and, and I'm just, I'm reiterating that and pointing that out because I want the audience to understand, you know, what you basically built here. I mean, that's, that's, it's, it's amazing. And it's, and it's very brilliant. And then now you're, you're obviously not, you know, when I introduced you, you're a realtor, so you're not doing the cupcakes anymore.
Leah Beaulieu: No, I still occasionally I'll make a cake. Um, from friends, obviously from my family, because we have grandchildren now, so they always get a cake. Um, so, I stayed in that business for about three years. Physically, it was very taxing on me because I was up at 4. 30 in the morning. I don't even like getting up early in the mornings.
I am not a morning person. So, um, after a while, I was exhausted, you know, and it was six days a week. Um, I learned from a friend of mine [00:22:00] who had opened a restaurant a couple of spaces down from me. She actually sold her business. And I said, I need to understand how you did that because we don't own this space and I don't know how you sell a business that you don't own.
And so she told me, she's like, I'm going to, I'm going to tell you and she did. And so I was like, this is brilliant. So, I ended up selling to 1 of the food trucks that was operating in our kitchen. Which worked out perfect. So, you know, in that time, it was easy for me to promote the cupcake business, the coffeehouse, the kitchen, because they all three had websites.
So I was constantly cross posting, you know, what was going on, where we would be with the cupcake trailer. Running the coffee house, doing food events in the afternoon. So I was able to keep those three up and running by being everywhere.
Leighann Lovely: And you just, a very important thing that you just said [00:23:00] by cross selling, by posting, by being relevant, by making sure that, you know, that each one of those were separate entities, yet.
By cross selling and, and, you know, being able to, I suppose if somebody is sitting in your coffee house and, you know, they mentioned they need a cake, you can say, Hey, I know somebody who makes cakes or cupcakes. Right, right.
Leah Beaulieu: And that was the thing is the funny thing is like. Everyone would say, Oh, you need to have cupcakes.
You need to have cupcakes in here. But it was my least selling item in the coffee house, but I could take, I could go out to the cupcake event, you know, or take it out for lunch or to the food truck rodeo. And the food truck rodeos were amazing. I mean, we ended selling over like 1200 cupcakes at our last event that we did.
It was just absolutely insane. Um, [00:24:00] so it does take a lot of bandwidth to. Manage multiple businesses like that to cross post and be sure that everyone knows what you have. Um, so, yes, and it was very hard to leave my clients and my customers. Um, I, I sold all of it. I got rid of the cupcake trailer, sold the coffee house and I was done.
Um, did a little stint where we had a wholesale business with Amazon for about a year. Uh, things kind of started getting crazy with Amazon, so then I pivoted to something else, back in the food business again. And I created a, um, keto granola, because that was the big thing. You know, that was whenever keto first started.
And then I did, like I said earlier, farmers markets are the best way [00:25:00] for you to get started for people to understand what you have, see what you have, see how it operates, or what the benefits are. And, you know, we always like to say, if the math doesn't make sense, there's no need in being in it. And the math didn't make sense after a period of time.
Um, so, yeah, I had to pivot one more time. And, you know, my thoughts were, gosh, I can hear, like, Yes, I could go back into the business world. I mean, I've been an entrepreneur for so long now. That's kind of, um, difficult for me. So it was kind of, you know, like, where do I go to next and my husband, you know, we've always flipped houses over the period of our marriage and that we've always had some kind of dealings with real estate.
And, you know, he was like, Hey, like, what about real estate? And I thought, I mean, sure. I, you know, I love houses. I mean, I [00:26:00] love how everybody decorates and I love to see new houses. So why not? Um, so yeah, I pivoted into real estate and that's where I've been.
Leighann Lovely: And it shows that, you know, that everything has a season and, and I think that you and I had talked about that, that, you know, and it's okay that when we have, you know, seasons in our lives and, and it's okay to move on and to enjoy what you're doing right now.
And then to be able to look forward to the future. But I think one of the most important things is that you have some of the core, core skillset, um, coming from a sales and marketing background. And obviously it's not just that. You have to have that entrepreneurial mindset. Um, because there are salespeople out there, there are marketing people out there that don't have that true entrepreneurial mindset.
They can go and sell something. You have those core, that [00:27:00] skillset along with that entrepreneurial mindset that has been able to drive you and push you. To being able to handle. You know, each venture you've taken out and be successful at it. You know, you, that's absolutely amazing. If not only to, you know, have one coffee house be able to be bought out, but have another one that actually was three businesses in one and, and sell that,
Leah Beaulieu: you
Leighann Lovely: know, to somebody, there are way too many entrepreneurs who, and I have a, um, you know, somebody who's in, um, you know, uh, A private equity investment, and she goes to look for, um, businesses to invest in.
And so often she comes up against business owners who've owned a business for 5, 10, 20 years even. And they're like, yeah, who would want to buy my business? And she's like, what do you mean? Like, [00:28:00] you just need to look at your numbers. You need to figure, like you were saying, if the numbers don't add up, it might be time to, but if your business is profitable, if the numbers are adding up, why wouldn't somebody want to buy a successful business?
And I'm saying a successful, and there, and there are businesses out there that somebody's baby, they're the face of the business. And if they don't exist. The business doesn't exist if you do it right, if you're creating it right for the right reasons, you're driving it forward the proper way. Why wouldn't somebody want to buy a successful business that isn't obviously tied just to the owner, but, and you, you clearly have done it, right.
But with those core skills of understanding the sales, understanding the cross selling, understanding the marketing, understanding that just because you make it doesn't mean [00:29:00] somebody buys it. Right. Because if they don't know it exists. How are they going to buy it?
Leah Beaulieu: Right, I mean, how are they going to find you?
How are they going to know? And it does take a lot of time. I mean, as with anything, it takes probably, I think, you know, social media these days is a full time job. I mean, I think you spend, you can spend hours upon doing that. Um, but obviously there's different ways to manage it so that you don't feel like you're so overwhelmed.
And you can actually work and what your passion is or instead of spending the entire day on the computer or doing your books, you know, those things are not. I don't think those are anything that an entrepreneur truly enjoys. I mean, like, our thing is to do what we do.
Leighann Lovely: Make the cake or run the business or correct.
Most entrepreneurs, I would say almost all, [00:30:00] if you were to ask them, did you become an entrepreneur to become an accountant or to do social, they're going to go no. And then when you say, you know, you have to do it though. And they're going to go. Yeah. I know, I know I gotta do it, but I really don't want it.
They're like, well, and then when you explain like, well, you also gotta do this and you gotta do sales and you gotta do this, and they're like, maybe I really should have thought about this .
Leah Beaulieu: Right. Maybe I'll just keep this as a hobby. . Right. I'll just do it on the side.
Leighann Lovely: Correct. So I'm gonna put you on the spot here for a second.
If you were to give advice one piece of advice. To a new entrepreneur who is like, yep, I'm raring, ready to go. What advice would you give to them?
Leah Beaulieu: I mean, I think that if it's in you to do it, then [00:31:00] you absolutely owe it to yourself to search that out, research it, get your numbers together. Just be sure you have everything in front of you to get started.
I'm not saying that you have to have all the answers that how it's going to look a year from now. But all of the information in front of you to get started and take at least just one step. Um, it's, I think we owe it to ourselves that whatever we feel like we are called to do. In that season, we need to search it out and you had a point earlier, there are seasons that things only last a season.
Some of it is not meant to last a lifetime. For me, that's me. I mean, some of those things aren't meant to last a lifetime. My husband has been a chemical engineer for 20 years. That's not who I am, you know, and I tell my children all the time, because they're in their 20s. And I'm like, listen, like, I don't even [00:32:00] have it all figured out.
Like, you just need to figure out the next step, like what's going to take you to the next season, and then go to the next point. You know, if you're going to finish school, then finish school, and then see what comes next. Maybe it's not what you're called to do, but you owe it to yourself to at least seek it out.
Leighann Lovely: You know, and that reminds me in this, your children might be too, um, too old, but you said that, did you say you have grandchildren?
Leah Beaulieu: I do.
Leighann Lovely: Okay. So, um, and I have a young child who's obsessed with the movie Frozen.
Leah Beaulieu: Yes.
Leighann Lovely: Okay. So in, in, in the number, in number two, there is the, uh, a quote from that, um, when, when the future is unknown, what do we do?
And, and the, the troll in that says the only thing that we can do is the next right thing. Yes. And that and you hit that on the head, which is it's absolutely true. You know, sometimes we don't know what the future holds for us. And in most cases, we don't [00:33:00] know what the future holds for us. All we can do is the next right thing.
The next best thing, take that first step into the unknown. And usually we start to see a clear path, right? And if we need to take a step back, that's okay. As long as we at some point do begin that journey forward. Um, and, you know, I, I talked to my, you know, my clients that I coach, um, all the time about like, hey, it's okay to take a couple steps forward.
Um, even knowing that we may have to scoot back a little bit if. What we've created isn't working exactly the way we wanted it to work. Sometimes that's what about the marketing, the sales arena. That's sometimes about what entrepreneurship is all about. Stirring out what messaging, what is going to work?
What, so I'm, I'm digressing here. So I want to give you your shameless 30 second pitch. Um, because we are coming to time, um, [00:34:00] you know, before we, before we wrap up.
Leah Beaulieu: Okay, great. So I, you know, again, I'm Leah Bollier. I'm a real estate agent here in the Charleston, South Carolina area. We service the whole tri county area, beautiful coast.
Charleston is like your dream city to live in. I moved here 12 years ago, but I am a southern girl. So this is my home state. Um, and I don't want to go anywhere else. You know, my husband's like, Oh, we're going to move. I'm like, no, we're not. So let's just stay here. So if you haven't visited, or if you're looking for a place, please reach out and let us know how we can help you.
Leighann Lovely: And how can we reach out to you?
Leah Beaulieu: So you can find me on Facebook, obviously, and Instagram, coast to coast properties. Um, I do have a YouTube channel, Coast to Coast Properties and our website as well. So all of our contact information is on there.
Leighann Lovely: Perfect. That'll be in the show notes. So if you do want to reach out to Leah, you can check there.
Um, but Leah, thank you so much for joining me today. This has been an [00:35:00] awesome, um, enlightening conversation.
Leah Beaulieu: Thank you. It's been a blast. I really do appreciate your time.

Discover How Great Salespeople Embrace An Entrepreneurial Mindset

Join Patrick Riley President and CEO of Genhead and myself as we dive into an engaging discussion on the intersection of entrepreneurship and salesmanship. Discover how great salespeople embrace an entrepreneurial mindset to excel and why every entrepreneur must harness their inner salesperson to thrive. We explore real-world insights on personal branding, the art of storytelling in sales, and practical strategies for overcoming challenges. This episode is a treasure trove for anyone eager to elevate their sales game or grow their business in the fast-paced world of AI and technology.
 
Contact Pat
Website – www.genhead.com
Phone Number – 920-205-3589
 
Special Thank you to our Sponsor Genhead – www.genhead.com
 
Robb Conlon – Intro and outro – Westport Studio - https://www.westportstudiosllc.com/
 
The Brave Ones – Instrumental Version Song by Jan Sanejko - https://artlist.io/royalty-free-music/song/the-brave-ones/119489
 
Leighann Lovely: I am thrilled to record another episode of Love Your Sales with Patrick Riley, the CEO of Genhead, also our official sponsor of the Love Your Sales podcast. Patrick. Riley is a 30 year veteran in the sales industry. He has experience in senior management roles in manufacturing and logistics and technology sector .
Most recently, Mr. Riley was the CEO of new horizons of [00:02:00] Wisconsin. Um, but now the CEO of Genhead
 I am wildly thrilled to invite him to come on for the second time , to talk with me again about, you know, sales. And I am going to allow Pat to tell you a little bit about GenHead and their mission. So Pat, welcome again to the show. And why don't you tell us a little bit about.
Leighann Lovely: Your business now, Genhead.
Patrick Riley: Sure. I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me again. Uh, Genhead is, uh, breaking new ground, uh, in AI, uh, lead generation and RevOps. And, uh, we are using artificial intelligence in every part of a company's front end. So everything from lead generation, To marketing automation, uh, to sales automation and [00:03:00] CRM activities.
Uh, we are a, a single, uh, location that can manage all of that under one. Uh, app and, uh, all your rev ops can be now managed in one place. And we can leverage AI to make it as effective, uh, and cost effective as possible for small to medium sized businesses. So small businesses can actually now, uh, join the AI revolution, uh, and, and benefit from it, uh, using GenHead.
And it's very exciting.
Leighann Lovely: It's, and it's, it is because I'm, I'm obviously a client customer of GenHead, I use GenSuite and it is an amazing tool. It really takes you from zero to a hundred.
Patrick Riley: Yeah. It's so
Leighann Lovely: cool.
Patrick Riley: I mean, it really, it, it's so cool. Every [00:04:00] day we're doing new things. I mean, we, we literally added a feature on Sunday that is going live on third or went live well today, Thursday went live today.
That's how fast AI is making our business change for our clients. It's, it's so exciting, you know, to be a part of it. Uh, and to, to watch these kids and I, I call them kids 'cause I've been around for a while. Uh, be able to, to take ideas that people that are more seasoned like ourselves have, you know, is it possible to do this?
And they go, mm sure. Gimme a day. And the next thing you know, you, you have the ability now to do, you know, XYZ and it's just incredible to be a part of it.
Leighann Lovely: So wait a second. Was I notified of the new feature that's happening?
Patrick Riley: You will be. You will be. Okay. It's [00:05:00] really cool. Awesome. You'll
Leighann Lovely: like it. Awesome.
You'll like it. Yes. And I always, I always look forward to the new features that pop up as you know, as a ground level, you know, user of the, of the, um, the suite and being able to, um, obviously then convey that to, you know, people that I work with on how they need to be using the, the product. Right.
Patrick Riley: Yeah. So it's neat.
Leighann Lovely: Yeah. And I've, I've only scratched the surface as I've continued to use the product and, you know, continue to learn new things on my own, um, as I navigate through it. So it's, it's definitely fun. So, so, you know, obviously it didn't bring you in here or bring you on to sit here and talk all day long about.
Selling your product. However, I'm sure that we, you and I could do that all day, but
Patrick Riley: I could, I could do that, but I think we're here to talk about, uh, a topic that we, uh, that we worked on together. So we should probably get into that.
Leighann Lovely: [00:06:00] Right. Before everybody goes, okay, what are they doing? I'm having a sales podcast where they're just going to sell us stuff.
So we, we talked, um, you know, prior to this about the idea that, um, Entrepreneurs are salespeople, but salespeople as entrepreneurs, the whole promise that, and so let's, let's dive into that. The whole concept that, one, a salesperson taking more of that entrepreneurial type mindset, would it be, or yeah.
So let's, let's dive into that. Yeah.
Patrick Riley: So what we were talking about the other day, and it just sort of came to me as we were just sort of bouncing ideas off of each other is that salespeople need to be entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs, small business owners [00:07:00] need to be salespeople. And so if we take sort of the first part of that, uh, and talk about that first.
Sales people, good, good, and great. And that's really what you talk about on your podcast, which is one of the things that I like about it is you don't talk about how to be a mediocre sales people, you talk to a person, you talk about how to be a great salesperson. And so I really believe to be a great salesperson, you have to take an entrepreneurial, uh, mindset, a concept.
However you want to phrase it or, or, or, or get, get your head around it. Um, you have to feel like you are in business for yourself. And if, if you, if you have an employer, let's say you're a salesperson for a company to feel like that company is your [00:08:00] biggest supplier, but you are in business for yourself, because if you don't have that kind of mindset.
You will, you will have limits to how well you can ever do. You will put limits on yourself. Either, either you, you will do them purposefully, uh, or they, they will just, they will just float in your mind. Well, I can only make this many calls today because that's what the company says. You know, you're supposed to, you're supposed to make 50 calls.
So I made my 50 calls and I'm done. Right. That's what, that's what an employee does. What great salespeople do is they throw that out and they say, I need to hit my personal goals. For my family and for me as a high achiever. And I don't care [00:09:00] what the company says. I don't care if the company says make 50 calls, I'm going to make 80 calls because I know that I need to hit that ultimate.
Uh, outcome and here
Leighann Lovely: and so go ahead. And what you're saying is it's completely resignating with me right now, because I, anytime anybody set a bar for me, whether it be in high school sports, whether it be in, you know, the. And when somebody said to me personally, so now I'm, I'm, I'm, you know, it's resignating with me here for just a moment, but it was, oh, you can't do this or, you know, here's what, you know, we, your expectations.
It was always, oh, well, you think that's all I can do. Great. I'm going to do this. And that was always the thing that, well, I'm going to blow that record out of the water.
Patrick Riley: And that, [00:10:00] yeah, in my entire career and, and I've, I've, I've sold. Um, about a billion dollars of product in my career. I never had a quota and I, but I was always a high achiever and, and my bosses never felt that they needed to give me a quota because I was being, I was difficult for them because I was bringing in so much business that they had to figure out how to supply it.
Right. Because I had a mindset that I was my own little bit. I was my own little unit. And it doesn't make you not attached to the company that you work for. In fact, it makes you more attached to them because they become reliant on you more than anything else [00:11:00] because you're their engine. Okay, when you become when you become the top sales person, you become the top sales earner for one.
Okay. But you also become their growth engine and they will come to you and say, okay, you are doing something that is different than everybody else. How are you doing this? Right, right. You a lot of times those high achievers don't have time, uh, to, to, to deal with the people that are not willing to make the sacrifices and that gap between I'm going to make my 50 calls because that's what the company says.
And I'm going to do whatever it takes to hit my personal goals. That gap is the gap between good and great. And I think it's an entrepreneurial [00:12:00] mindset that I'm in business for myself.
Leighann Lovely: Absolutely. And this goes back. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna do a callback here really quick to the first conversation that I had with, with Sarah Bauer, um, on episode one, where we talked about sales being the only profession in the world where you can write your own ticket, where you are absolutely unlimited.
You are paid for it. You are paid exactly what you are worth, meaning that if you go in and you want to just meet the quota that your, that your company sets for you, you are being paid exactly what they told you that you would be paid basically. But if you decide that, wait a second, I don't want to make the 120, 000 that they said that I could make in my first or second year, I want to make.
150, 000. I want to make the 180, 000. I want [00:13:00] to make the hundred, which is why great salespeople always look to make sure that there is no cap. Am I going to be capped? If I hit 200, 000 and then I can't get any higher. Well, that's not the job for me. Like I want to be able to know that the sky is, you know, that the moon, that the universe is flailing my hands, then is the absolute limit because I don't.
I don't want anybody to have to put me in a box and say, here's what you're going to make. And there are people out there. We need everybody else. We need everybody else to know that this year I'm going to make 80, 000 and that I'm perfectly comfortable with that. And then next year, hopefully they'll give me a, my 3 percent raise, and I will continue to make my way up that ladder.
And I'm going to be comfortable and I'm going to be happy and I'm secure. But then there's the other side of the [00:14:00] You know, of the world where like, Hey, I will work for my whatever base, 60, 000 base. And I will go out and I'll make 200, 000 at the end of the year because I worked my butt off to be the best at what I was selling.
But that takes somebody. I
Patrick Riley: never put caps on every, every job, every sales job that I hired for. Um, and, and I, and I, and I put that in the job description that your earnings are unlimited because I didn't want somebody that was comfortable with having their, uh, earnings cap.
Leighann Lovely: Right. And there shouldn't be, if the company is making money.
Why are we capping what the, the salesperson is capable of making? And again, going back to your point, if the person looks at this, if I, as the salesperson go, [00:15:00] my company is also my client and you treat them as, okay. They're also my client and my, like you said, the engine. To be able to support my other clients.
So I'm in the middle, I'm the entrepreneur. I treat them like a client here. I treat them together. I marry them together to make the happy match. You truly are acting as an entrepreneur.
Patrick Riley: Absolutely. You are sell, you are, you are selling the products or services, uh, that your company that, that pays you.
Provides to the marketplace at large, that makes sense and and you are, you are putting those, you're marrying those things together, but you're doing it. The other part of this, uh, that I wrote down that I wanted to make sure that we hit is is high achievers that [00:16:00] have the entrepreneurial mindset not only do not, uh, limit themselves from an activity standpoint, but Uh, which is important.
It is hard work. I mean, the activity is hard work. Sometimes it can be a grind. Sometimes it can be tough. There's a lot of doors to knock on and things like that, even if we're doing it virtually. But the other side of it is creativity. High achievers are creative. They don't follow the basic script of how to find new business.
And so they will, uh, find a new way to knock on a new door. They will go to networking events or they will go to, uh, chamber of commerce. So they'll go, I mean, and, and those are real basic ones, but they, they will [00:17:00] find where their market goes and they will get there and they will become a part of their marketplace.
And that allows them to be a trusted advisor. And when they become a trusted advisor, they're no longer selling anything. They're providing value to their marketplace and the product or service that they're providing is just, just flows in because that's what the, that's what their, their, their market needs.
And, and so that creativity. Combined with the hard work and the feeling that I'm in business for myself, those three areas, I think, define a high performing salesperson, regardless of what they do. Market or market conditions. [00:18:00]
Leighann Lovely: And here's why, because they are top of mind. They're the trusted advisor.
They're the person who's constantly in front of everybody. So that when their network, their community, their people go, Oh, I know somebody who has that problem. I'll talk to you. They're the person. Even in, and, and. Everybody, when I think of my, when I have a plumbing problem, I have my person when I have a guy, right?
I got it. I got
Patrick Riley: it. You got a guy,
Leighann Lovely: right? And so, you know, when I, and in my network, the first thing that I do when I have something that I need, when I have a need, when I think, oh, I need a landscaper, I need this, I need that. The first thing I do is go to my community. Because my community has [00:19:00] a guy and we say a guy, a gal, a person, we got, we got a person.
Patrick Riley: It's no longer a guy, but, but we joke and we got, I got a guy, right? Exactly. It's like a thing, right? Right. And the great, the great salespeople become that person and, uh, and, uh, they do it by, by those kind of those three tenets. Of creativity, you know, work ethic, uh, and, and sort of stick to it. And this is, is, is another, another big part of it is, is, is if it doesn't work once they don't give up and, uh, and that's, that's really a big part.
Leighann Lovely: And in my coaching, I talk about the three buckets to success. And there's, you have to hit all of them. You can't deny your cold calling. You can't deny your social. [00:20:00] And when I, you know, I talk about social being not just your being out and networking, but also your social posting and that type of thing and,
Patrick Riley: you know, digital is key now.
Leighann Lovely: Correct. You know, there are, there are, are multiple different avenues that you have to make sure that you're continuously, you know, and you're in person, you're, you're, you know, all the different things that you have to make sure that you're now, as we transition into an entrepreneur as a salesperson, I'm going to just make this last statement because The other thing that a salesperson, even representing a company, they have, what they're doing here is branding themselves.
And people forget, they're like, no, I'm with a company. I don't need to be on LinkedIn positioning, but here's the thing. You're branding yourself as the expert in [00:21:00] fill in the blank for that company. And even if you leave that company, you still want to serve that same industry. If you've really positioned yourself properly, sometimes your clients follow you because they love you.
You bring up,
Patrick Riley: you bring up an excellent point. And it's a point, it's a good transition point because it's, it's one of the anchors of, uh, both great salespeople and great entrepreneurs and that both of them and that's personal branding. Because an entrepreneur needs personal branding and great salespeople need personal branding.
Correct. Uh, you know, and, and yes, it's tied in with their corporate roles. But [00:22:00] they also need to have branding that is separate from that. And, uh, and, and it's very important today. You know, I post on LinkedIn. I try to post every day. I'm not, I'm not getting to every day yet, but I'm doing probably every other day right now.
You're doing what? Where, where I'm trying to post on, I've got like five topics that I think I know something about. And I'm trying to post on one of those five topics every day. That's my, that's my goal. And I'm getting there. I'm working on it. And, um, and that is part of my personal brand is to add, try to add value to my, to my network on LinkedIn, which is pretty good.
And, and share some things that I think that I know, um, and, uh, and that is upping my personal brand. Yes, it [00:23:00] helps Genhead, but it's not coming from Genhead. It's coming from me and, uh, and good and great salespeople and good and great entrepreneurs understand that, that they need to be out there in the digital marketplace, especially also person to person working on their personal brand.
Because that helps them to become a trusted advisor, a
Leighann Lovely: trusted
Patrick Riley: expert
Leighann Lovely: and a subject matter expert in their area of expertise. And here's an example, you know, people who knew me from my previous career, HR. So I had an HR podcast, right? When I pivoted to love your sales, people were still going, wait. Can I still come to you with my HR questions?
And I'm like, well, yeah, sure. No, well, no, I'm really more of a sales, trying to do the [00:24:00] sales, but I had branded myself for so many years in that space. I, I did what I was planning on doing. And it, if you can do that to the point where, where it's actually hard to separate yourself at that point where people are like, wait, that is, that is what that is.
And it follows you. You've just branded yourself. The right way
Patrick Riley: you've just, and that's, and that, that branding is important. And so as, as we start to talk about the, the entrepreneur as a sales person, this is where we start to talk about a pain point because, um, I know a lot of solopreneurs, um, through, uh, various organizations that I belong to and [00:25:00] the prototypical solopreneur.
Is someone who is really good at doing something, whatever it is, maybe it's coaching, maybe they're a plumber, maybe they're a welder, maybe they're, uh, an accountant, uh, you know, they could be, uh, an attorney, whatever it is there, but they're good at a skill and they want to go out and get into business for themselves.
Great. The problem then lies that they're good at what they do. But they're not necessarily great at running a business, right? And you and I, you and I have seen, you and I have seen our share of these people. And they're really good people and lovely people and really good at what they do. But what happens a lot of times is they start [00:26:00] this and maybe they even have a customer when they start.
A lot of times that's what happens is, is, is they have a relationship with someone or a couple of people and they say, you know what, that's enough for me to get started. And they get started. Well, they'll start coming in and they start figuring it out that they can't make a living on two customers. And, and they start panicking cause they don't really know what to do.
Well, what you have to do is add gas to the fire and the gas are new customers. And the way to get new customers is through selling folks. And they become
Leighann Lovely: wildly disappointed when they wake up one morning going, Oh, I have to be a
Patrick Riley: salesperson. And they hate it, right? They hate the concept of it, the very idea of an attorney, let's say, or an accountant, having to [00:27:00] go and, and in their mind, lower themselves to be a sales person to make their business work is just, Awful, right?
But the reality is, is that every entrepreneur has to be a salesperson. And, and the best way that I've, I've coached friends of mine that have been in that situation is, is to, to not feel like you're a salesperson, but feel like you're a storyteller. Because what entrepreneurs need to do. That's a little different than what salespeople need to do because entrepreneurs get some grace in the marketplace because the marketplace is not expecting an attorney necessarily, let's [00:28:00] say, well, attorneys might be a little bit different because attorneys have their own little Their own little place in the world.
But let's, let's just say an accountant, um, the marketplace is not expecting an accountant to be a great salesperson, but if an accountant can tell a compelling story, About why they are where they are and what makes them different than other accountants. That's kind of good enough, but they have to do it to people.
They have to get out of their chairs. Get out in the world and they have to do it to people that they don't know. And, and that people is sales. Now you're telling the story, which makes it softer and easier and better for them to handle. [00:29:00] Uh, because it's not so much, you know, Hey, do you want to buy something?
It's just leading them down the path of, Hey, you know what? I could use that. And we had a lot of that with Jen had in the early days. I wasn't selling anything. I was just, you know, people were asking me after I sold my last company, Hey, what are you doing? And I would tell them what we were doing with gen head and people would go, I want that.
Leighann Lovely: And I
Patrick Riley: go, Oh, okay. Um, let's get together and talk about that. I mean, I really wasn't. Even though I was, I was historically in the sales and marketing parts of businesses, I really wasn't selling it. I was just talking to people about what I was doing.
Leighann Lovely: And now let's, and I'm going to throw this in here for a second, Pat, because not only as an entrepreneur, you know, who starts off has a couple of customers and clients, they have to execute on [00:30:00] this.
And for the most part, you know, you're, you're everything. You're executing on it. You're doing the work. You're getting your website up and running. You're paying the bills. You're making
Patrick Riley: your own coffee. You're doing everything.
Leighann Lovely: You're vacuuming your office and cleaning it and making sure that all of the things are being done.
And then, now what we're saying is, yeah, lawyers, accountants, whatever you might be, by the way, by the way, you now have to get out there, get out of your comfort zone of being behind a desk and talking people through their accounting. You also have to sell. If you want to, you want to. Grow if you want to be there in a year from now, or 2 years from now, you also have to be able to continue to sell [00:31:00] the product to bring in new clients.
And no, this is not, I'm not trying to do shock factor. I'm not trying to do like, oh, my God, I shouldn't do this. It's the reality. Of entrepreneurship and unless you are a, like an immediate, like, I want this, I have to, unless you are an actual physical location where people are drawn into buy your product, like a McDonald's, people aren't going to just walk in your door now.
And I have, and Pat, you have seen plenty of attorneys stand up and do amazing pitches where you're like, wow. Okay. Um, that was. That was awesome. Like I've seen an accountants as well where they stand up and they do their, their 32nd pitch. And you're like, I didn't know that, you know, accountants got out there.
Yeah. Right. And those are the people who [00:32:00] That I didn't at the time that I first met them, I was still, I was still incorporated and I went, Oh, I'll never use them. But now I'm their client. And I'm like, Oh, okay. I had no idea that, you know, the four years ago when I first saw her do her 32nd pitch that one day I would become her clients.
Patrick Riley: Exactly. Well, and, and again, as, as an entrepreneur, you get to tell your story because it's your story. You own it. Right. Right. And, and, um, you know, with, without doing that, you will die. Right. And the number one reason that small businesses fail, and they, they fail at a very high rate. And the, and the number one reason, and it's the overwhelming reason, is that they run out of cash.
Right. If you don't have cash, you're out of business. And the number one reason that they run out of cash is that they don't [00:33:00] have enough sales. So it's, it's a very simple equation. You need gas to make the car. Okay. . You need to bring in new business. You must do this. It's also the same thing for a salesperson.
A salesperson must bring in new business because you have a leaky bucket. You just don't know how leaky it is because you're losing clients. Either to new technologies or competitors or changes in market or whatever it is, you're losing, business that you have right now. And you have to keep filling that bucket.
And, uh, the same is true for entrepreneurs. And I think that's why it's important that we talk about great salespeople are entrepreneurs and great entrepreneurs. Also recognize that they [00:34:00] have to, they have to do sales, uh, in some way or another now they get again. They get a little grace. Uh, I worked for a very small manufacturing company, which we turned into a nice size manufacturing company together.
Um, and and my 1st boss there, um, who was the founder of the company. Uh, and I would go on sales calls and, you know, you know, there's, there's some kind of rules to sales where you, you, you want to speak less than, than the client does, you want to ask some leading questions and get them talking and all of those kinds of things.
And you don't want to promote too much and all that kind of stuff. And this guy followed none of the rules. He would go in there, he would go in there and he would say, Listen, I founded this company and here's what we're about. And he would just, he would just, [00:35:00] just completely not follow any of the rules and people would buy they would buy because he was sincere and he was, he was the owner of the place and, , and he was very likable first of all, and I still like him.
, he was the entrepreneur. And people gave him a lot of grace. If I tried to do that as just the account executive, which was my title at the time, I would get hammered, but he could come in as the president CEO and, and founder and say, listen, this is why we founded this company. This is what we're about.
And if you want that, we're your guy and people would go, I want that and that's what entrepreneurs can do. They don't need to necessarily, you know, learn every nuance that sales people need to learn, but what they [00:36:00] do have to do is get their butt out of their chair and get out there.
And get telling their story because if they don't do that, they're going to go out of business.
Leighann Lovely: They have to get comfortable with the uncomfortable because for the most, for the most part, unless you, you know, and one of the main questions that I ask everybody that I work with, everybody that comes in either as a consulting client or as a new business that I'm, that I'm assisting in another way.
Have you ever been a sales person? And nine times out of 10, by the time they're coming to me, they're like, I haven't. And it's like, okay, so now I know where to start because most likely they don't even know how to conduct a discovery call. Most likely they don't even know. And. So often you hear all the advice out there [00:37:00] that, you know, you go to tick tock, you go to, it's always about how to close.
We're going to teach you how to close. Well, wait a second. What about teaching how to just have a conversation, a sales conversation? What about the first steps? What about getting somebody to, you know, open up to you about what their true need is, not what their want is. It's because quite often what their want is and what their need is don't totally match.
Patrick Riley: I generally, to be honest with you, in this stage of my career, I generally don't close. I don't, I don't, we get to a point where it's like, I go, I closed a big deal last for us last Friday. And we, we got done talking through all the details of what they wanted and what we could [00:38:00] do and how we would do it and the timelines and just, we just went through the project and back and forth and, and show them what GenSuite look like and how it would work.
And just, just, we just talked. Right. And we, we got done and I said, well, do you want to buy it?
And that's the beauty. And they went, yeah. And they went, yeah. We do. And I said, okay, so we'll get you a contract and we'll start next week. And they get, and the guy went, yeah, good. And that was it.
Leighann Lovely: And that's the beauty of when you become, when you become so seasoned is that your conversation, you've gotten to the point where your conversation leads them into closing themselves.
Is that you're, you're never in a state of, okay, now let's get to the objections. Let's overcome the objections. Let's do, let's do the soft close. Let's do the hard close. Let's do, you've gotten so good at figuring out how to overcome all of the objections in a simple [00:39:00] conversation that you, you don't even have to, and, and then you've gotten so comfortable that you go, okay, are you ready to, you know, is there any final questions that you have that, that I haven't covered?
Great. Okay. So is this the right product for you? Do you want to buy? Yep. Okay. Excellent. So here's, here's the next steps. This is, this is our process. And that is, that is the, the, the beauty of when you get to a point in your career where you go, wow, I've, I've, I've figured this out. Like, And I remember my early days where I would have my proposal and I'd go in and I'd go through all the steps and then I'd be like, is there any questions?
And then they would come back with an objection and I'd go back to the office and I'm like, how do I overcome this objection? And blah, blah, blah. And I'd work through all the steps and I'd figure it all out. And nowadays there's, there's no, you know, there's, I, [00:40:00] I don't even think about what those objections Would look like because I'm already having conversations to put them to bed before they even come up in the conversation
Patrick Riley: Yeah, you work really hard on the front end, correct?
We when we were when we were younger we would we were too afraid to work hard on the front end Mm hmm. We were so thrilled that we had a prospect
Leighann Lovely: Coming in with our binders. Binders with our binders and our,
Patrick Riley: and our, yeah. And our, our little briefcases and all that kind of stuff. Right. And we were so thrilled that we had a prospect that we wouldn't challenge them ever.
Right. Correct. Because we didn't wanna lose them. And so what would happen is, is that we wouldn't deal with any kind of. Uh, you know, questions or is this a fit or does this work or, you know, what, what are your [00:41:00] needs or any of those kinds of things on the front end? Because we didn't want to lose them. We just, we were so excited that it was like, it was like, we had a new puppy and we were like, we don't care if it pees on the floor.
Just just give me the thing, you know, and, uh, and so then we get to the end and we hadn't done the front end work. And so that's when we got all the objections, right? And so it got to be hard at the back end. Now, when you're more seasoned, you realize. That all the work is on the front end. That's where you find out if it's a fit.
And if you do that, right, then you just go through and you're just exploring together, whether or not this product service, whatever it might be, is the right thing for both of you. Because they might, you may have a great product that works for them, but they might not have the budget. So you [00:42:00] may say, you know what, this doesn't work for us.
I'm sorry. Correct. Yes. And
Leighann Lovely: that is the beauty of, of becoming that final. That is the beauty of, of getting to, well, first being an entrepreneur and being able to. Not have to go back to your boss and be like, I decided not to work with them and have your boss go, what do you mean? Being able to make those decisions.
I think the first time that I said this isn't the right fit was the most liberating most. And I went, wow, that, that felt great. Like, I don't want to work with that person and they don't, I don't, they're not going to be a good fit for me. It just felt great to be able to say, I don't have to, like, I, But Pat, we are coming to time.
I could, I would love to continue this conversation, but you know, we are coming to time. So 30 seconds, [00:43:00] shameless pitch. If you would like to, um, you know, continue on with a little bit more information about gen head or anything else, actually. Um, so the floor is yours.
Patrick Riley: Sure, I appreciate that. Well, as I said earlier, Jen Head is leading the way with AI lead generation and marketing automation for small to medium sized businesses.
We work with everybody from solopreneurs to, uh, companies, uh, up to a hundred employees, and we help them leverage AI, uh, to grow their businesses fast. And we've been very successful doing so. Uh, we are, uh, a growing, uh, concern and, uh, have experts in. Uh, A. I. Marketing, website design, S. E. O. Uh, everything a small businesses needs to be able to take advantage of the new area [00:44:00] of rev ops.
And that's where revenue generation meets sales operations. Uh, and and bringing those two areas together helps small to medium sized businesses. Manage everything that happens on the front end of your business. So everything on the sales side and on the pre sales side gets managed and automated so that your customers are constantly getting communicated with, for example, where their orders are or, uh, customer service type things, sales issues, all of those kinds of things are automated using AI.
It's a very, very cool system. You can go to ww www dot gen head, gen head.com, um, or you can dial 8 4 4. Uh, Jim [00:45:00] had and, uh, speak to us and we'd be happy to start.
Leighann Lovely: Awesome. And in the show notes, you will be able to find the links. You will be able to find the information on how to contact, um, Jen had and, um, Pat and his team.
So again, Pat, thank you so much for this awesome conversation.
Patrick Riley: Absolutely. It was great talking to you again, Leighann. Have a great day.
Leighann Lovely: You too.
 

Importance Of Selling on Value, Not on Cost!

In this episode of Love Your Sales Podcast, we dive deep into the essence of selling on value, not just price, with expert guest Brent Halfwassen, founder of MKE Small Business Coach. In this enlightening conversation, Leighann and Brent dissect the crucial aspects of understanding client needs, positioning services for maximum impact, and the strategies for transforming hard work into hard cash. The dialogue centers around the pivotal role of empathy in coaching, leveraging individuality in business strategies, and the transformative power of choosing the right actions over busyness. Brent shares invaluable insights on the importance of focusing on value to drive sales and ensure client satisfaction, emphasizing the art of pricing based on perceived customer value rather than just the cost. Join us for this insightful discussion on making the leap from merely transacting to creating lasting value and relationships in business.
 
Contact Brent –
Website – www.MKEbusinesscoach.com
LinkedIn- https://www.linkedin.com/in/brenthalfwassen/
 
Special Thank you to our Sponsor Genhead – www.genhead.com
Robb Conlon – Intro and outro – Westport Studio - https://www.westportstudiosllc.com/
The Brave Ones – Instrumental Version Song by Jan Sanejko - https://artlist.io/royalty-free-music/song/the-brave-ones/119489
 
Leighann Lovely: To another episode of Love Your Sales. I'm so excited today. I am joined by Brent Halfwassen. He is the founder of MKE Small Business Coach, a business coaching and consulting firm focused on small business owners and entrepreneurs up to 5 million in revenue.
Brent is a reality focused small business coach empowering small business owners and entrepreneurs so they can stop spinning their wheels [00:02:00] and instead take the next right action to transform their hard work into hard cash. We all need that, He has spent over 20 years building businesses and opportunities, coaching hundreds of entrepreneurs and small business owners around him and evolving his own entrepreneurial focus. Brent, I am thrilled to have you come on and talk with me today. So welcome.
Brent Halfwassen: Thanks for having me on Leighann. I'm looking forward to talking to your audience and seeing how I can help them grow as well.
Leighann Lovely: So tell me a little bit about, you know, some of your core, you know, principles and how you begin with coaching some of your clients.
Brent Halfwassen: That's a great question. So the first thing I like to lead with Leighann is that everyone is individual. And while there may be great systems and tools and processes that everyone ought to be using, [00:03:00] that's not the reality for most of us. Most of us have a problem that we are really trying to overcome.
It's a pain point that we feel. And I just think is a great coach. I've got to come in and understand that I've got to come with deep empathy and insights because being a small business owner is hard. It's lonely. All your W2 friends have no idea what you're talking about, even though you try and relate to them.
And so when I, and then I bring a lot of humor in order to help that out. So with an initial evaluation, we try and get at like, Hey, is this probably what's going on, how you're feeling, where you're at. And then we start to build on what are those next right actions. Because most of the folks that, uh, finally reached that breaking point, they're like, I'm doing all the things I know how to do.
Usually it's their greatness, right? They're amazing at their skill, craft or trade. But when they want to do the next thing in order to keep growing the business, they're like, it's stuck. I keep doing more and not, and more is not happening. And that's where we come around. And we try and build, what are the other pieces [00:04:00] you need?
But of the myriad of like 5, 000 things you can do and all the newsletters you're getting, let's pick the next one, two or three things that are actually right for your business and take those actions so that we can transform that hard work into hard cash.
Leighann Lovely: You know, and hearing you say that, You know, I, I just recently reread, um, good to great.
And I, I right now, the, the thing that's ringing in my head, um, is that so many people forget to make the list of things that you don't, that you shouldn't do, right? We try to do everything as small business owners, and we forget that there are habits. That we need to stop doing right because they're non revenue generating tasks or they're just so less important than we think they are because they've become [00:05:00] habits of what worked maybe when we were a one person shop, but now we're a 10 person shop and it's, you know, evolving as a business, you have to learn to shift your thinking and shift the way that you do things and kind of move.
Uh, cause. Parts, they all have, you know, different functions, right? So, And the other thing that, again, I went from being a W 2 employee, not that long ago, to being that business owner, and it's such a hard,
it's, you can't explain it to your friends. They're like, well, well, you go to work every day. Well, yeah, but I go to work every day, and I'm the only one. Everything falls on me and, and that pressure.
Brent Halfwassen: You're, well, you're totally right, Leanna. I think the best part is that they tell you, Oh, you can set your own schedule now.
You can do what you want. It must [00:06:00] be nice to have all that freedom, right? I'm sure you didn't hear that from anyone when you launched your business. Right.
Leighann Lovely: All that freedom. That's what I think. That's the dream that we chase when we think we're going to, when we go, Oh, I'm going to run my own, I'm going to start my own business.
I'm going to have all this freedom. Um, I have zero, I haven't even thought about the idea of a vacation because I'm like, well, who's going to answer my emails? Who's going to take care of my clients? Who's going to answer the phone? Who, If I'm gone, my business shuts down. So. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's the reality of small business ownership.
So, I'm gonna guess that somebody talking with you, somebody meeting with you, is like, Okay, Brent, how do I [00:07:00] do this? How do I scale? How do I get my life together?
Brent Halfwassen: That's it. That's it. I think there's, you, you touched on something that is so critical. What are the things we need to stop? So one of the reasons that we can focus on just what are the next few, not more than three actions you need to take is because we are creatures of habit.
And so we don't need to monitor the other pieces that are already habitual to us. I only need to monitor the ones that I'm actually changing because it's the change that's hard. The habits come naturally. And there may be 50 things we need, quote, need, need to fix, but I don't want you to shut on yourself because we're not capable.
There's like one in a bajillion who can like do all this amazing change. And I'm always a little bit dubious with their story, quite honestly, but that's fine. They're out there. The bell curve has been people way out on the tails. Most of us are not there. And so I recommend you do not emulate those people.
So we just stick with a few that you can change. So to your point, some of the change is stop doing it. [00:08:00] And the question is what happens if you stop doing that thing? Will the world end where your business actually sink? Is it actually true? Cause the voice in your head's probably saying, Oh, people are going to hate you and no one's going to buy from you again and blah, blah, blah.
All right, stop. Like when you put the imposter down and then you say, what will really happen? And then what happens if we actually. Respond to that proposal. Follow up on that hot lead. Um, you know, make sure that you send the third follow up when you haven't gotten an answer on the first two on something you knew was good for you, right?
I'm sure you talk a lot about how to, you know, don't let a simple no or a ignore or I'm busy or how about next week or I'm going out of town. Can we meet in next month? Whatever. Say, okay. Absolutely. Let me put it on the calendar versus like, Oh, they didn't want to talk to me. They must not want to buy my stuff, but those, those voices go on all the time.
The other piece I love that you talked about was working in your business. So you're the one doing all the things and Hey, let's face it. When we're a solo entrepreneur, we're just getting [00:09:00] started. That is our reality. However, one of my clients I worked with, that was her main goal. I want to take a vacation.
In fact, she was going to go on an extended mission trip. In a different continent. So she was not going, not only not going to be available. She was truly no phone, no internet. You can't reach me at all for a month. Well, we figured out how to organize her business to be able to make that happen. She made more money that year than she had made in previous years by a good stretch and took her first vacation in 20 years.
So That is, it is doable, but it takes some specific actions and specific steps to get it done.
Leighann Lovely: And that's the amazing thing about working with somebody like you is that entrepreneurs, and I'm guilty of this, is that nobody else can do it as good as me. Nobody else can do what I do. That is, it's so untrue, right?
Because it, and if I think [00:10:00] that truly stay thinking that. I will never grow. I will never scale. I will never be able to become bigger than just one person.
Brent Halfwassen: Yeah, and
Leighann Lovely: we can go down this rabbit hole forever. But let me put what I want to talk to you about. Yeah,
Brent Halfwassen: go. Well, let me spin it because I think it gets to where we want to go in our conversation.
Um, Uh, but let me just say that it's possible that people can't do it as well as you, but I want you to value your time appropriately because there are probably things that like is 80 percent good enough is 60 percent good enough because when you're amazing at what you do, you can probably do what you give yourself.
You're like, ah, that was a C performance and everyone else was like, Leon, that was the best thing I've ever seen in my entire life. And we're judging ourselves hard. So just remember when we value our time appropriately, I want you as the amazing skill doer to go out and do your amazingness because that's your best value that you can [00:11:00] deliver that people are going to perceive.
Let's let some of those other pieces go elsewhere.
Leighann Lovely: And, and I'm going to stop again, this conversation could go on forever because I mean, entrepreneurs become entrepreneurs of the thing that They love to do because they're good at it because they're great at it. But like, to your point, can I hire somebody else to do some of those other pieces?
And those are the smart people. Hire others who can do what you aren't great at. And allow you the time to be great at something else. Now, let's get into, you and I had a conversation on something that you talk a lot about, and this is, I'm very passionate about this. Um, I was brought up to know this, to understand it.
And I also want to caution [00:12:00] the listeners to make sure that you're understanding what we're talking about. So we're going to make sure that we stay. You know, focused on this, we talked about selling on value versus on price, and people talk about this all the time, but they're young salespeople can sometimes get confused by this if it's not explained properly.
So Brent, I want you to talk through this, explain what you explained to, and you talk about this a lot. Let's talk about the difference between selling on value versus selling on price.
Brent Halfwassen: Great. I appreciate that because this is also something that drives me nutty when people bring up, I want to figure out how, like, I'm working my butt off.
I don't have any money showing up on the bottom line. One of the first places we look is ultimately how much are you charging for your product or service? Here's the way that, um, I would say mainstream media [00:13:00] generally talks about price, supply and demand, whatever you want. It's how much does it cost? And where can I go and get it cheaper?
And that is sort of like the default mindset. So by default, when we start our businesses, we're like, Oh, you know, I don't know, is someone actually going to pay 200 for that thing? Maybe it should be one 30. Maybe it should be 100. And we start talking ourselves out of it. And we think of it always in terms of a cost.
Now, almost everything that we're selling, there are probably a few exceptions, so I won't say everything, but I'm pretty sure it's close to everything actually depends on its circumstance. So when I talk about. Don't talk about price when the first opening discussion you have is someone's like, Hey, would you like this cookie?
Well, how much does it cost that that totally the value that you're going to get from under the person's going to get for? It depends because, for example, if I happen to be in the Feister forum watching a box game, that cookie is probably going to be like 8. And I may think it's a steal if it's 6. Why?
[00:14:00] Cause I can't carry in food. I'm hungry. I'm cheering on the team. And I'm looking for a little bit of hit after some tasty rib niblets I had from iron grate or whatever you got going on. Right. You know that it's going to be more. And generally there's a line of people at the cash register pan. So someone determined the value of that cookie was dependent on its location was dependent on how it was served, depend on the conditions.
Your businesses are just the same. How are you positioning it? If you immediately go in and start talking about price, here's what happens. You become a commodity. A commodity is an item you can buy wherever and whenever from the lowest bidder, that's like going on to an auction site maybe. And like, where's the lowest spot I can go.
And if you compete on cost, here's the problem. Someone else will always be cheaper than you. So I want you to think about how can I position this, whatever it is you offer your product or service, and what is the value from the consumer standpoint? It's not always about what [00:15:00] am I worth? You know, like I would, you know, this isn't about an intrinsic value of who you are.
This is about your customer. How are they going to use whatever it is you have? What is the circumstance they need to use it in? And when we start digging into some of those questions, Which by the way, should be part of your sales process. I'm sure you dig into that with people to understand what, what is their core need?
Boy, if I just had a solution to this particular problem, that would be amazing. And that is your cue to say, let's figure out what that is literally worth. And I'm talking about dollars and cents. If you had it, I'd be able to free up a salesperson. What does it mean if you're up a salesperson? Wow. If I had a freed up salesperson, I'd be able to get an extra X number of dollars per year.
Okay, cool. What's your margin on that? 20%. All right. So you said you get an extra 100, 000, 20 percent of that's 20, 000. So what you're telling me is if I can help you free up an extra salesperson, you would put 20, 000 more dollars in your pocket. Yes. Now I know what my offering is worth. If I can deliver on that, on that guarantee.
Do I get to keep all that money? Nope. They're going to want to keep some of [00:16:00] that money, but you now know what it's worth when you position it. And it is not about. A price per hour. It is not about, oh, if I look at my job on salary. com and divided by 2000, this is what it's worth. We're not doing that.
We're talking about the value to the end customer.
Leighann Lovely: And that I love the way that you just explained that and position that. I also want to throw in there that. It's, it's not completely fluid when we're talking and yes, you and I kind of talked about it. It can be, it can be based on how you're positioning the offering.
However, you need to make sure that you have a standard of, you know, a baseline that you're building that off of so that you're consistent amongst what you're proposing to other people. Correct. [00:17:00] Or what you're proposing to the masses, you can't go and offer your same service to 2 different people at completely different prices.
Brent Halfwassen: Yeah, I think you
Leighann Lovely: could potentially get, yeah, I think
Brent Halfwassen: if you are, um. Particularly if your prices are far and wide, so we're not, I'm not talking about demand dynamic pricing. That's a thing right now. And there are, there are probably scenarios where that works. I think some companies are going to experience some significant pushback.
And demand pricing is just like, Oh, let's do supply and demand. And it's essentially an auction. And if there's a long lineup for fries, those fries are about to get more expensive until the line gets shorter. Um, I think you can have some reputational challenges if that's what you're perceived as doing.
Um, you know, we're, again, we're not bringing generators into a hurricane torn zone, like that's, you know, we started talking about price gouging. You, you gotta be, you do have to be careful. [00:18:00] I want to put a nuance on that, that depending on what you're doing, particularly if you're offering a service.
Generally, your service delivery isn't unique in every circumstance, so you can you can position it a little bit differently. However, as you start to become really good at understanding what your value is, um, you're and provide value is when I work with these clients, these are the results they tend to get once I've worked with 10, 15, 20, 100 of those type of clients.
Now, all of a sudden, I kind of understand. Hey, Hey, When I come to the table, here's the stuff I'm probably going to find. I'm going to understand you. And now I kind of know where my range needs to be. Now, if I, in that scenario, maybe what I'm talking about is not the same service at a different price, but I'm offering a range of different services.
Hey, I can do one thing at this level, but I can do another thing at this level. And wow. And if you're really ready to capture that whole 20, 000, we were talking about, this is the level you really need to consider purchasing. So there's some different ways. To make it work. Um, I [00:19:00] just want everyone to understand the concept because most people go right to cost.
What does it cost? Not, it doesn't cost you anything. Right. What problem is it solving? Cause I'm about to give you a value because I'm gonna solve a problem for you, not drain money out of your wallet.
Leighann Lovely: Correct. And, and it goes back to what I was, you know, what was ingrained in me and as an early sales person.
If, if you have a client who is buying on price. They're they will leave on price if you're not setting up the value first, they're there and they all they want to know is, well, how much does it cost? How much does it cost? How much does it cost? They're going to leave you on price because there will always be somebody in the market who's willing to say, well, I'll do it for 2 points cheaper.
And so they're going to go. Okay, great. But if you're setting up that value up front of this is why you're going to, you want to work with me, because this is what we're going to provide to you at the end of the day. And this is what your ROI. Ultimately, what we're doing is [00:20:00] providing the ROI of the product.
Why the value, the return on your investment is X, Y, Z. This is why we do it best. This is how we are going to be a, and I I'm emphasizing we, I shouldn't, this is how, you know, our company is going to be able to bring value and your return on your investment, and we're different because X, Y, Z, and if you can convey that, I've And they can buy into that before they go, okay, so what is this?
You know, ultimately what is the fees? What is the cost to that? But they're already sold before you ever have that fees or cost, or they're not going to leave you when somebody comes and says, well, I can do it for two points cheaper, because they're going to go, yeah, but I really like the service that I'm working with because.
They're providing what they [00:21:00] told me they would provide. They will become a client for life versus the client that comes and says, yeah, you're too expensive before they've ever heard why they should work with you. Right. It's
Brent Halfwassen: a beautiful example that, that you gave. We, uh, was involved with a real estate transaction and there was a broker who just straight out said I, I cost a point more than anyone else.
And the reason is because I'm going to get you about 25 percent more value for your property than anyone else will. And I'm like, well, I am all in on that. If you're going to get me a big pile of extra money, and I have to pay you an extra couple of grand or whatever the number is, that's, that's the trade off.
They went above and beyond. They were answering the questions. They were consulting along the way. They were providing that additional service that the others literally their pitch was. I am the lowest price commodity in the market. And I'm like, yeah, but if you don't do the best for me, [00:22:00] the value is not there, right?
Leighann Lovely: Correct. You know, and coming from I, you know, I came from a wildly saturated. And competitive industry being in the staffing, you can go on every corner and find a staffing company. Right? And 1 of the 1st questions that any company asked is, well, what is your markup? Before we even get into the markup conversation, do you want to hear, you know, how we screen our candidates, how we go through the process to make sure that we're not wasting your time by sending you 10 resumes and you're then spending, you know, 10 hours interviewing people who aren't qualified because how, how valuable is your time?
Would you rather get three resumes? Of really highly qualified people that we've already screened a ton to make sure that they're a match that if you have background [00:23:00] requirements, if you have drug screen, whatever, would you rather spend 3 hours and have the candidate and have an offer within a week? Or would you rather spend 10 hours to come back to me and say, this person doesn't match and they go, oh.
Okay, wait, well, so how, how do you do it differently?
Brent Halfwassen: Here's
Leighann Lovely: how we do it differently, but we're, but we're two points higher than the other agency. So again, I ask you, how valuable is your time?
Brent Halfwassen: So I, and I position, um, so I, along with this point, Leighann, I don't like it when people talk about how they're cost effective or, You know, frankly, lower costs than someone else.
Like I, anytime I see that language in any of their verbiage, I'm like, that all needs to go away. One, I had a similar situation, I believe, to what you're sharing. I had a client just, um, I was coming through with, we were, we were raising our prices and I said, here's our new price. Um, you know, obviously they had the right to say, no, we're in on, it's just going [00:24:00] somewhere.
So they said, well, look, I can hire X, Y, Z and do all this stuff. And then they, you know, start annualizing your rate. And, you know, even though you're only working with them for 20 hours, they figure out, well, if you were a full time employee, I'd be paying you a bazillion blah, blah, blah. Like you hear all the noise.
And I was like, look, it is your choice, obviously how you want to go. However, if you would like to hire someone who will take twice as long to get an answer and the results won't be as good. That is absolutely your prerogative if you want the value of me being able to understand the answer immediately and being able to provide you a solution that you can implement effectively and actually get the results you want to achieve.
That's why I positioned where I'm at, but the result is yours. There are plenty of people who will provide you less value than I will instead of talking about charge less instead of saying you pay less. I just straight say they will provide you less value. And if that's what you would like. I respect your choice.
Leighann Lovely: Correct. And we can go around that in a million different ways. Same thing with So, you know, financial advisor, [00:25:00] I can throw, you know, every time I go to a networking meeting, or I go to, I can throw a bunch of business cards out and have 4 financial advisors say, hey, I'd love to do a portfolio analysis.
Okay. Great. Let me list off the things that are important to me. And let's see if you have those things, you know, and then if you have those things, maybe we can have a, now, first of all, I have a financial advisor that I love. So nobody, please call me about financial. The point is, is that, you know, if my financial advisor comes to me and says, you know, Leighann, you'll have complete transparency.
You can log into your account at any time. You can do transfers directly from here. You, you know, you, but on the backend, here's what we're going to do for you. And then we're going to do this. Provide the value. First, that's what I care about. Don't start selling me on your, and here's what drives me crazy.
Don't start telling me what your [00:26:00] company has done in the past. I don't care that your company is 80 years old or 200 years old. It's about what it is today. What value does your company have today for the people of 2024? That's what's important to most people. Now, most people. There are people out there who like who are I want to know the history.
I want to know where, you know, how it evolved. It's different for everybody. There's everybody has those different, but you before and I stress this, I've had people come to me and say, I just can't close. I just can't. Okay. Well, then you're not, you don't know what that person wants from you. That's
Brent Halfwassen: right.
They,
Leighann Lovely: you, you've missed the mark. If they're, if they've come to you, you've gone through the entire process. [00:27:00] You've presented them a proposal and they're not closing. You have not created or you have not found their pain point and created the value of your service.
Brent Halfwassen: Yeah. Or your services. The majority
Leighann Lovely: of the people.
Or correct, you're either your product is not right for them and you wasted a whole bunch of time because you didn't figure that out in the initial conversation and we're not in a world of, you know, sleazy salespeople where we shove product on people's throats that they don't need and then walk away and go, yes, I got one.
I hope nobody's in, you know, trying to do that anymore. We're, we're in the world of find the proper prospects, talk to them about. What they need, and if you're a match, continue the conversation, go through the complete discovery, figure out what solution you [00:28:00] have, present that solution, make sure you understand what their pain points are, how that solution is going to solve that problem for them, and make sure the value exists.
And I guarantee that if you do that, all those steps properly. They're going to go, Oh, I don't care how much it is. If you're going to do all of that for me, here's my checkbook. And obviously if money does, it does come down to if they have the money in the bank. And there are true situations where somebody goes, Brent, I want to buy from you, but I just can't afford it right now.
And I will tell you that in those situations, often they will come back to you and go, I can now afford you.
Brent Halfwassen: No, I think I love the process you said out there. I think it's so critical. If [00:29:00] you know who your customer is, you know what problems they solve. Your question asking during that sales process needs to be unearthing more of the magnitude of the problem. And you're looking for, you know, what your services are, you know, roughly where your price points are going to be.
You're working to match those pieces up and saying, okay, hold on. You're saying that this is your experience. This is your challenge, whatever. I think we can help you there. Here's where we're going to go to. And by doing that, by, by focusing on the issue that your client or customer is having versus focusing on the thing that you have to sell, you are shifting automatically into a value focused selling model.
Uh, when we just buy like, Hey, I got a thing. I need to sign up first come first served. I got three spots left. I mean, great. There's a lot of additional things to create some FOMO and closing techniques, et cetera. But if the value is absent. Even if you're shopping at the dollar store, if the value is absent, [00:30:00] people won't buy the plenty of items there that are cheap, but if I don't find the value, I won't buy, right?
Leighann Lovely: Correct. We're not the majority of the, we're not a consumer. You know, we're not sitting on a shelf as the candy bar that people go, Ooh, I'm gonna throw that in my cart. Right. We're not the entrepreneurs, small business owners are typically not the, , what word am I looking for?
Brent Halfwassen: Impulse buy.
You're not the impulse buy at the cash register.
Leighann Lovely: There we go.
Brent Halfwassen: And the reason someone else can do that at scale much better than you can. So I want you to focus on experiences because experience has a value proposition that we can talk about and move. Even if you're selling a product. You can provide an experience around it.
Maybe it's in your customer delivery. Maybe it's in the store experience. Maybe it's in the online portal. However you do it, you can make it unique and you and then drive value with how you do it. And you can you can provide the value through the website even when people don't [00:31:00] talk to you. But if you're thinking about those customer problems and you're addressing those customer problems, you're embracing this value mindset that we're talking about where price is not what we're having a discussion about.
And I don't like anchoring price early because people will it. Evaluate it based on someone else's, their understanding of the value that they can get. And when you can explain and crack the nut on where they're going to go, I think you're going to see some success in making sure there's value behind how you're pricing.
And you'll feel more confident, both in terms of closing and in terms of, Hey, I think we've clearly established this is what it's worth. If there's a gap there, you can try and close that, but you can walk away knowing that, like, Hey, They know it's there because sometimes the sale isn't today. That thing's going to linger for a while.
They'll come back and be like, you know what? That problem didn't get any better. And maybe the dollar gap got even bigger. I'm ready now.
Leighann Lovely: Correct. So we are coming to time. Brent, I want to give you the opportunity to do your. Shameless 32nd pitch. So go ahead and [00:32:00] the floor is yours.
Brent Halfwassen: I love it. Hey, if you're a small business owner and you're amazing at your skill, career or trade, you've started growing your business, you've hit a spot that you think you're ready to keep going, but all of a sudden you're working your butt off, you don't have much money to show for it.
That's the spot where Milwaukee small business coach comes in and helps you. We're gonna help you identify those areas. It could be in sales, it could be in operations. It could be in how to translate your actions into actually seeing dollars show up on the on your bank. We want to come in. We want to help you do check us out.
MKEbusinesscoach. com. We've got a lot of information for you. We've got insights. We'd love to talk with anyone, listen to this show. Just give us an opportunity to help you move along and see if there's an opportunity we can get you to succeed and transform your hard work and hard cash.
Leighann Lovely: That was awesome.
Thank you. So much if, um, and you gave us your website, correct?
Brent Halfwassen: That's the website. And, and, and you can, you can reach out to us, give us comments, schedule a meeting directly on our website, right? With one of our coaches.
Leighann Lovely: [00:33:00] Perfect. And your contact information will be in the show notes. So if you're interested in reading, reaching out to Brent, please do so.
Um, but this has been an awesome conversation to remember that, um, you know, to sell on value, not on price. And thank you so much, Brent.
Brent Halfwassen: Thanks Leighann for having me on.

Success and Empowerment in Both Sales and Life

On this episode of Love Your Sales Joe Rockey Jr., an expert in sales, shares valuable insights on the psychology of sales and the importance of addressing past relationships. Leighann Lovely facilitates the discussion, emphasizing the significance of confidence and communication in sales interactions. Together, they explore how redefining sales approaches can lead to success and empowerment in both sales and life. Join the Love Your Sales podcast for profound conversations on mastering the sales industry.
 
Contact Joe –
 
Book – Casino Sales Master - https://casinosalesmaster.com/
Website - https://elitebusinessconversations.com/our-services/
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/joerockey/
 
Special Thank you to our Sponsor Genhead – www.genhead.com
 
Robb Conlon – Intro and outro – Westport Studio - https://www.westportstudiosllc.com/
 
The Brave Ones – Instrumental Version Song by Jan Sanejko - https://artlist.io/royalty-free-music/song/the-brave-ones/119489
 
Leighann Lovely: Welcome to another episode of Love Your Sales. I am very excited because I am joined by Joseph Rockey Jr. He is a serial business creator, world class consultant, international best-selling author, and host of a TV show that airs in 55 million households, Elite Business Conversation. Elite Business Conversations, Joe's consulting firm specializes in honoring the sacrifices of business owners.
His international best-selling book, Casino Sales Master, proven systems to beat the odds in sales and life, and accompanying coach courses are teaching businesses worldwide to sell in the [00:02:00] correct way. By bringing relationships. As an integral portion of the sales system, Joe's clients cut through the omnipresent residue of the 1960s sales method.
Joe, I am so excited to have you join me today.
Joe Rockey: thank you for being here. I love it. And I appreciate the chance to have talks about making sales better. And I always like to let people know like what you're going to get out of here. A little preview Tarantino it, if you will. You know, by the end of this, we're going to give you a drill that I do with my clients that will radically change your life.
I mean, that's just fundamentally what's going to happen. So stay tuned for it. See how it builds up, why it works, because it does make a difference. But yeah, always like to give people a little preview, right?
Leighann Lovely: Yeah. Awesome. Well, let's, why don't we jump, jump right in? I mean, tell me first a little bit about your, about your book, like And obviously not giving it away because we want [00:03:00] everybody to go buy it.
Right. But, you know, tell me a little bit about how you created that, how you, you know, came to start writing that and, and a little bit of, you know, a preview of it. Yeah.
Joe Rockey: Yeah. So the starting point is in the essence of all of it, sales are being done wrong. Now we all know it, and I'm going to give you something that you know, in your truth, that you never thought of why, but it's been baked inside of you your whole life.
When you were three years old, you weren't supposed to lie to anyone. You were supposed to always tell the truth and be honest, except to a salesperson. I'm not here on this car lot to buy a car. I just like walking around in asphalt next to shiny things and blistering sunset days. Like, no, you don't.
You're here to buy a car. Um, I don't really have like three appointments on my day. I just don't want to talk to you as a telemarketer. We're all trained to lie to salespeople. [00:04:00] And why? Because salespeople just use you for the sake of getting their own commission out of you. That is the 1960 sales method.
There's no desire to build a connection, build a relationship. It's just, what can I get out of you? What can I make happen for our own company's profit? This is why you saw the advent of multi level marketing systems and all of that kind of problems, all issues. So when you look at the quick element of that reality, it's, we need to do something about this.
This trying to just. Lie people force them through side doors that aren't really real is a horrible way of living and make no doubt about it. Revenue is the lifeblood of the economy. Your business does not work if you don't sell correctly. And that's where the essence of the sales system came from. And then just, instead of having testimonials about how great it is, which certainly we have, I was like, I'm going to take this to the [00:05:00] hardest sales environment on the planet.
The place where every person knows if you go, you're going to lose. And that's a Las Vegas casino floor. The house always wins. Everyone knows it. In fact, going to Vegas and not losing all your money is considered a win for most people. Let alone going there, having them turn all of your profits. Into paying for your whole trip, paying for you to be there, paying for all the other sun stuff you can do in Vegas.
And when I did this, the first time I was in my twenties and the book is specifically about that first time I tested this and have done it every time since and system, but it's really about how do you bring relationships into your sales life? How do you get better at making relationships? Most people have no idea how they form their own, let alone how to talk about enhancing them.
And that's really the essence. of what I do in all elements of my [00:06:00] life, but specifically in the book, Casino Salesmaster proven system to beat the odds in sales and life.
Leighann Lovely: Very interesting. And, you know, as you were talking about, Um, we've been taught from, and I'm going through, I have a six year old, my, my listeners, I'm sure hear me drop this all the time.
Um, right now I'm going through the whole, you don't lie, don't lie, but you're right. The minute, you know, you get onto a car lot, the minute you get in somewhere or the minute somebody calls you and trying to sell you something, it's the first, the default thing that you do is I'm really busy right now. I can't have this conversation.
Even if I'm sitting on the couch.
Joe Rockey: Hey, don't get me wrong. The candy crush matters, man. It's,
Leighann Lovely: it is the default setting that we have because we don't as human beings, we don't want to be sold to, we just, we don't, it's, it's [00:07:00] this icky feeling of like, stop trying to shove something down my throat that I, because as soon as you try to shove it down my throat, I think I don't need that.
Um, even if, even if you were having a conversation with your spouse, your significant other three days prior about how I, we, I think we need a new cell phone plan. But as soon as a cell phone company, or as soon as somebody starts talking to me about like, you know, you're walking in a store and they're like, Hey, have you considered changing your cell phone?
You're like, nah, get away from me. It's, it's like, because you're, somebody is trying to sell to you. Mm hmm. Which is where the relationship comes in. Yeah. Because if, if I'm having a conversation with somebody I know, like, trust, and they're telling me about the benefits of their product, [00:08:00] I'm not, I don't feel like I'm being sold to, I feel like I'm being educated.
Joe Rockey: You're exactly right. And to give a bombshell for people out there who feel that their relationships with their parents broken during puberty. This is the answer. Why does the shatter your whole life? Probably didn't think we're going in this direction. Um, what you just said is the starting point is that someone's trying to just bring information at you.
Could be advice about why you shouldn't date this guy. It should be why you should buy a Chevy. It doesn't really matter. Someone's trying to bring information to you to force you to do something when you as an individual do not feel that that connection is warranted. And for parents, it's incredibly hard because I've seen you your whole life.
I've literally seen you grow. Like that's what you did as my kid. But it's now that I'm in a different state of mind, I don't feel that that connection is there the same way or the way that it [00:09:00] needs to be to have this conversation. So when you first jump on that lot and it's this car can go from 0 to 60 this fast, it's got this towing capacity, this power and all that.
All right, cool. Maybe that's exactly what I need. But because you're not trying to relate to me, I don't want to know. I, it's not there. You know, you did like, I'm coming here to get a seven capacity vehicle and it's just me here. You didn't ask why that would be interesting. Like, why is that something you want?
Is it really just because you want a truck, but because you live in an area, you think people are going to break into the back of it. You have it enclosed. So you're buying a big oversized SUV. That's basically just a closed in truck. Or is it because you're hauling 13 people around and you're forcing them in the slots on various different days, because you don't know which version of your grandkids you're going to have this kid's back kids are the other ones, these are all different conversations.
And I can tell you as a sales professional, the more you're able to get into those types of conversations. [00:10:00] Where you're talking about taking your kid, taking the grandkids to go get ice cream or to the zoo, or you know what, I go to a lot of golf courses. I just don't want my clubs ever get rained on. So I'd rather just have it enclosed.
Those are different conversations every day, which makes your life more interesting because you're talking about different fun things every day. But also now your clients like, Oh, this guy gets me. I will talk about his dreamy blue eyes and why I want to go on a date with him. Mom, it's post is slamming the door, screaming and running down the hall.
I mean, we've all had these thoughts and experiences. It's just which version of you is coming out and all the differences is how are you being approached? How do I want to have a conversation with you? And again, I totally seen your face. Like, why did he just bring up this random? Like when puberty happened, cause no one talks about it, but this is the psychology behind it, and this is part of what I teach people.
Leighann Lovely: And no, I mean, I, I, if I was making face, I apologize, but it completely translates because I've [00:11:00] had conversations with other people. Again, this goes back to the very first episode of Love Your Sales, which was everybody's selling every day and it it's, it's ingrained in us from the time that we are born and it, the inner actions and the things that are happening throughout our entire life all the time are, are either negotiation, conversation.
ingrained in, you know, and it's, it's really funny because I have a conversation, my husband, who's completely opposite, you know, you know, if you look at the disc assessment or completely opposite is me and he'll make comments like, God, I hate salespeople. And I'm like, Hey, Hey, honey, you're married one. You don't hate salespeople because you married one.
Um, because he gets annoyed with like, you know, somebody knocks on the door and they're like, Hey, do you want to have your driveway? Repaved or whatever. And he's just like, God, it's so annoying. And I'm like, well, they're just doing their job. Like that is part of what they do, but you [00:12:00] also are selling, you do, you negotiate with your daughter 30 times a day.
She comes up to you and you negotiate with her about a piece of candy. We're sitting at the dinner table and she's like, if I eat this piece of broccoli, can I have some more candy? And I'm, I'm like, you're doing it every single, it's just, the difference is, is that you're not doing it as a profession.
You're, you're not out there trying to sell. I'm like, but you, you have to understand that it, it's just, it's just tweaking it a little bit. It's just a, a simple mind shift change. Mm-Hmm. like, and, and that's all that it is. And when it comes to the professional sale, if you were actually implement what you understand in the real world as your friends, as your, the people who trust you, if you were to walk up to your best friend and say, Hey, this is like one of the greatest new.
pens ever. [00:13:00] And they'd be like, Oh, okay. Well, I love, you know, I love having great pens and you can identify like, or maybe a pen is a bad, maybe you have a friend who's an artist and you were to walk up to him and be like, Hey, I just, these are the greatest new crayons ever. And you're identifying with them.
They're probably going to go out and buy those crayons. Simple as simple as I mean, and that's extremely easy to do because you're identifying with something that they're interested in, something that they like,
they trust you. Yes.
Joe Rockey: And you hit on the most important part there at the end there, the, the, the trust part. So we all have, because we're all people, presumably the AIs aren't listening to this yet. Um, but because we're all people out there, we all have this innate thing that at some point in our lives. We were vulnerable and it didn't work out [00:14:00] and our brains put up these defenses to try to eliminate and hate that we actually started basically from moment one of birth.
Um, it's just something that's in your subconscious that's constantly there. You can't do anything about it. So where the issue comes into play and going off of your last example there, why this is all about trust. Comes down to really, how do we make trust and make it quickly without having to do a 15 year relationship with my best friend, because ultimately that's people who are successful in sales do that.
And here's the secret. This, this is something that most people will never get, never do implement. It's because you break trust. When you make assumptions, when you are not allowed to make them now for a lot of people, that requires a ton of self awareness that they don't have. Um, so that's a drill by itself about working on self awareness, but what you really need to do is recognize.[00:15:00]
Why does your husband hate when people come up and tell him he needs a new driveway, even if he does is because somewhere embedded in there is an assumption that you don't know how to take care of yourself. And that is an instant non starter no matter who you are. Okay. There's many different ways to approach this.
Yes. Salespeople do need to reach out. There is no way that cast the go away. That fact exists, but you have to do it in the right way. And it starts with knowing. Am I making an assumption? How am I going about that? Because you make assumptions at the wrong time or the wrong way. You've just destroyed, destroyed trust as quickly as you can light money on fire.
Just like the Joker did. Right.
Leighann Lovely: Right. I completely agree. And for, for sales people who are typically high eyes, typically influencers, typically people who are, they, [00:16:00] I have seen the outgoing talkers, the eyes. Correct. I have seen many of them who could be the greats sit at the mediocre to good because they go from discovery meeting to trying to create a solution way too fast.
And they're working on the assumption that they think they know what the problem is. Not asking the right questions, not asking enough questions, not asking what do you really need. What do you really want and how are you going to make this decision? And they just skip over that part. And go right to, well, here's the perfect solution for you.
And that goes back to, you know, the, the old salesperson who's like, I'm just going to shove this [00:17:00] solution down your throat and you're going to buy no matter what.
Joe Rockey: Yes. And that's true. And as salespeople, it's really easy to get caught in this trap, right? Because I've seen my product work on this person I sold to earlier in my life.
I know it works. I know it's awesome. I know people love it, but we want to skip past the part of why. And I have to tell you, this is a remarkably weird phenomenon, but if you, once you learn it, it will change your life is reversing that mindset of what you just said. Exactly. The more you can discover someone, the less you actually need to present your solution.
It doesn't make sense to most people intellectually when they first hear that. But if you're on the situation where it's, I'm going to keep using the car lock because it's the easiest one for me to do because I'm in that zone. If you are in a spot where it's, I now know what your routine is that you care really more [00:18:00] about driving your grandkids around and that this is the terrain you go in and then you take them to the park and you love doing that and it's all about what they do with their kids and what they're going to do with this vehicle why it's important.
Actually talking about the vehicle doesn't really happen. And this is so contrary to the way people still teach sales at some of the elite, pretty schools that we all wish we kids went to. And until they do, um, that's the way that it is. It's all about living in features of benefits. That's what we're constantly taught features, benefits.
Features of benefits. Well, everyone's sitting up here in the surface of the water. You really want to get in the reality of what I'm trying to describe right here. You got to dive into the ocean of the emotions of your buyer. And guess what? Up here is four wheels and an engine down here is ice cream, my kids going to the park, doing all this, being on a golf course and knowing that my clubs won't get rained on all of that stuff and having talks about how, like, I [00:19:00] can love chipping, but I hate driving, whatever that case may be in the golfer's world.
The point is going into that space that has nothing to do with the truck is where you actually make the sale. And it is so contrary to the features, benefits, features, benefits on the surface of the water. If you're a scuba diver, which in this analogy is what you are, do you have more fun being on the surface of the water or go checking out the ocean?
That's as a salesperson, what you're going to be doing. And if you do it right, you will be there. And another very important element is you have to be able to do that with yourself because no one's going to trust the guide that is insecure. Do another analogy. Imagine you're doing skydiving and the person behind you is like on this 20 million times, it's gonna be fine and easy.
We're gonna have a little extra downward because that's what everyone else wants. They just don't know how to ask for it. So we're gonna get a lot of speed. You're [00:20:00] gonna feel all this awesomeness and then boom, you're gonna feel a tug. That's what's gonna happen. Versus option two. I second time I did it.
I think I grabbed this one and it's a really hard gang and it's gonna hurt. Which one are you more excited for doing? You're going to experience the exact same thing, but which one are you more excited about doing? Right. And are you even getting on the plane with the second option? Right. That's what every sales experience is.
Just are you able to do it?
Leighann Lovely: Well, and that's, and that goes to, you know, I've, when I've worked with people who have, are very green, you know, and I'll say to them, you need to just fake it until you make it. And, and not, not to say that like, Oh, go out there and, and, you know, lie or pretend, but You, you've been trained in your product, you know, your product, you need to fake that confidence that right now you're struggling with walk in there as if you [00:21:00] know it backwards, forwards, and just.
Um, have that confidence, not arrogance. Let's not, let's not mistake arrogance and confidence, confidence. When you say your price, you say it with confidence. Yeah. My price is 3000 to get started. Whatever that number is, 10, 000 to get it's 10, 000 to get started. And then you stop. You're confident in everything you say.
If you are not confident. Your prospect is not going to be confident in your ability to provide that service. They're not going to, if you, if you go, my, my price is 10, 000, they're going to go, oh, wow, I can get her to come down. Yeah,
Joe Rockey: or
Leighann Lovely: I don't want her. Or I don't want her. Or I don't want her. And, and, and that is the number one, like, if going, you know, the skydiver, if somebody like, this is my second time, I, it, you know, it should work out well, I'm going to go [00:22:00] hell no.
I am. If this guy says, well, this is my fifth time, it's going to be great. You know, I, this is exactly okay. He's very confident. He's very cool. He's very, that's fine. I don't care if it's his fifth time, but if he's like a hundred percent, like this is exactly how it's going to happen and exactly how we're going to do it.
That's fine. Even if it's only his fifth time, if it's his a hundredth time and he's still like, yeah, so if this is what it's, I'm going to be like, Oh, this guy doesn't seem like he's very comfortable with this. It doesn't, it doesn't matter how many times you've sold it. It only matters that you are confident.
And providing that solution and being able to deliver the confidence that you know, it's going to work for them.
Joe Rockey: That's exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly right. And again, it's, it's unique in the sense that every business is dependent upon the sales industry. So [00:23:00] while the, the, the actual product itself, if you're not happy with that one that you're at, at your company.
You can go to another one because if you have the relationship skill sets behind you, which again, is what I teach in casino sales master, you can have the ability to have the freedom to say, you know what? I can work wherever I want. And more importantly with whomever I want. So I don't want to be in this environment anymore.
I can go to another one that will treat me better and be a better fit for my vibe. And yes, you're all right. At the beginning, I'm not going to have all of the firsthand experience. Of what it's like having my consumers buying this product for me, having my clients buy this product, but I am going to know how to get to what's truly important to them.
And this doesn't matter if it's a business consumer or a business to business sale. So there's some companies out there that are dependent upon very few buyers for their space. To give an example, in the iron and steelmaking industry, there's all kinds of mines. But [00:24:00] there's very few actual people that buy the or just the way it is.
So if you want your mind to be successful, you need to get one of those companies to buy you, which really has a procurement officer. One person dictates the success of the sales of your entity, essentially. So if you come in just features and benefits, it's, it can, we can give you this much. It's this quality.
It's rated here, blah, blah, blah. Maybe it works. Maybe it doesn't. But if you dive deeper and find on goes, you know what? This guy only selects from this company, even though my stuff's better than them. I can give them more of it. I give them faster. Why does he always select from that company? Well, if you actually dive into it, well, it's because if he doesn't select from that company, his boss will make his life a living hell.
Well, then let's see if we can get a conversation about why the boss thinks that about this. And now we're not talking about, or at all, we're talking about some reason back in the day that the boss has an affinity towards your competitor. And now how do we overturn that? What's really [00:25:00] going on in that boss's head?
What's that relationship? We're not talking about iron ore. You do that successfully. Your mind is perfect. It's working forever. You fail at that. All of your employees are fired because you can't sell any more product. And yeah, that's an extreme example. But there are industries out there that are basically the same, that there's very few people we actually can sell to because we are this specialized.
There's nothing wrong in that, but it does mean you have to be very good at how to sell. And by the way, if you figure how to do this and you can sell to anyone, you have complete and utter control of your life. Because now you can control your clients, select who you want to serve, who you want to take care of, and your life becomes infinitely better.
So, so Leanne, I, I don't want to make us go long. I know you told me before about, about not going long. I do want to make sure I leave time to give people their prompts. So,
Leighann Lovely: yes,
Joe Rockey: go ahead. Okay. Um, so, so obviously we talked a lot about relationships, right? Yeah. Um, and one of the [00:26:00] things that hold people back, whether they realize it or not, are relationships in their past.
That are not where they wish it was to be today. And this could be something as big as the relationship you have with your parents or your adult kids, or it can be something as someone you drifted away from, from like for college or whatever. And this simple exercise, again, it's not hard. It's very simple, but if you don't do it, it will not help you.
I mean, it's just the way it is. It will change your life. Figure out one of those relationships where something, it's not the way you want it right now. And simply call that person. Don't social them. Don't text them, call them with an aim of actually sitting down and meeting, you know, lunch, whatever, but you're actually going to meet them.
And the point for this is this, is that every one of your relationships that aren't where you want right now are essentially an anchor that are pulling you back [00:27:00] subconsciously. And your brain is working harder and harder every day to overcome this drag that is pulling you back. If you actually address these scenarios, you will find a couple of things very quickly.
It's the equivalent in the physical space of losing a ton of weight and how much more energy you get. That's your brain getting better. Second, you'll find that the reason you guys separated, especially if it was a negative event, neither one of you two see the same way, especially the further back in time it is.
Because all of our brains Are built to make us the hero, not the villain. So we changed facts and figures in our heads versus if we watch an actual recording of it, it would be wildly different than either of the two of us. Think addressing this on reality's terms makes your life better. Yes. You're learning relationship skills and practicing how to do conflict resolution and all that important stuff.
But more importantly, [00:28:00] as you talk to people with relationships that you wish were better, they become better. And as that happens, your mind gets freed up and accelerates. And like I said, the analogy to the physical world is the equivalent of losing a hundred pounds. And there's some people out there who look like they're in great shape and all that, but they have all this baggage mentally and it holds you back.
And that is something that if you just do it's 10 numbers and push a green button, it takes courage to do it. There's a lot of people that don't want to do it. And your mind and subconscious have given you 5, 000 reasons. Why not to those reasons are holding you back. You need to address them head on. And you do that by calling.
So again, not something that's overtly complicated. It isn't, but it is something that will change your life. And in some cases it might be very hard. In some cases, it's gonna be super easy. You're just never going to know until you call it because the relationship is both sides of the fence. You don't know how you're going to be [00:29:00] received, but if you come in a way that is neutral and calm, it will be better.
Leighann Lovely: That's amazing. And great advice. Thank you for sharing that. So we are coming to time. This is the opportunity to give you the opportunity that I give you, um, for your 32nd shameless pitch. Go ahead, Joe. I, um, like to give you that, that you got
Joe Rockey: casino salesmaster. com. Go check it out. Not only can you get the book there, you also can get our coaching courses, which go a little bit deeper, their video.
So you have them forever for those people who don't want to read and just want to watch me talk. Um, it's that, and it's an absolutely amazing story about how, no matter where you're at in life, regardless of where you're at watching this, whether you just had the worst divorce, you have no money, you're in Or you're, you're smothered by some other situation, regardless of your position right now, if you can [00:30:00] become successful at sales, you will get complete control of your time and income that no other profession can do.
And that is the real goal of casino sales master proven system to beat the odds and sales and life. Yes. Sales is the vehicle, but life is really what you went at. And I tell you this no matter where you're at, there is reason for hope. Sales is the economic pathway to do it. It's hard, especially if you do it wrong, like the 1960s way.
But if you do it correctly, as we teach, you will love the way you look in the mirror and you will control your time and economic wellbeing forever.
Leighann Lovely: Very well said. Um, so Joe, if somebody wanted to reach out to you, where is, you know, how can they reach out to you? How can they find your book? All of that fun stuff.
Joe Rockey: Well, the easiest way is like I said, casino salesmaster. com. Obviously we're on Amazon as well to reach out to me directly. You can go to my website for the consulting firm, [00:31:00] which is elite business conversations. You will see a bunch of different tools there, which end up with either us helping you directly through that toll in the moment, or talking to either myself or one of my partners.
About how we can help on you at a very specific and customized level. And that is that elite business conversations. com.
Leighann Lovely: Awesome. And that will be in the show notes. Um, again, Joe, thank you so much for coming on today and talking with me. This has been an amazing conversation.
Joe Rockey: Perfect. I hope that everyone benefited from it and share it.
If you guys got something from it, share it with everyone else.
Leighann Lovely: Awesome. Thank you.
 

Selfless Leadership Inspires and Empowers

On this episode of Love Your Sales, we delve into the power of leadership with retired Lieutenant Colonel Oakland McCulloch. Oak shares insights from his 40+ years of experience in various leadership roles, emphasizing the importance of selfless leadership and the impact it has on team building and trust. We explore how interpersonal connections and understanding people are the foundation of effective leadership, whether in high-stress environments like combat or the corporate boardroom. Oak's anecdotes and advice underline the significance of genuine human interactions over transactions, shedding light on how leaders can inspire and empower those around them. Join us as we uncover the keys to unlocking your leadership potential and fostering an environment of trust and collaboration, thus enhancing your sales and overall success.
 
Contact Oakland –
Website - https://www.ltcoakmcculloch.com/
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/oakland-mcculloch-34293256/
 
Special Thank you to our Sponsor Genhead – www.genhead.com
 
Robb Conlon – Intro and outro – Westport Studio - https://www.westportstudiosllc.com/
 
The Brave Ones – Instrumental Version Song by Jan Sanejko - https://artlist.io/royalty-free-music/song/the-brave-ones/119489
 
Leighann Lovely: Welcome to another episode of Love Your Sales. Today, I am excited because I am joined by retired Lieutenant Colonel Oak McCullough. He is an internationally recognized keynote speaker and author of the 2021 released Your leadership legacy, becoming the leader you were meant to be both his leadership talk and his book are based on his 40 plus years of leadership experience in combat, peacekeeping operations, [00:02:00] disaster relief operation, and in the boardroom
Oak highlights principles that will benefit today's leaders and inspire the leaders of tomorrow in any profession and at any level of leadership. Okay. I'm so happy that you are joining me today, um, to not only talk about, you know, I want to learn a little bit about your book. I haven't had the chance to read it, but.
I've already downloaded it on my, um, audio, um, to listen to that, but also to, um, you know, learn more about how you're impacting the world now with the experience that you have. So
Oakland McCulloch: welcome. Yeah. Well, thanks for having me on the show. I've been looking forward to this.
Leighann Lovely: Yeah. So why don't we, you know, first, 2021 let's, let's talk about that for, for a moment.
Oakland McCulloch: Yeah, I've always wanted I, you know, for years and years and years, I wanted to write that book and I just never did. Um, and, and it really is. I mean, there's no talk of theory in this [00:03:00] book at all. It's all everyday things that everyday leaders can do to not only improve their leadership skills and abilities, but also to.
Help empower the people they have the privilege to lead, and it is a privilege to be better, not only workers, but also better people. And, you know, I said, I've been given my leadership talk for, I don't know, 20 years or so. Um, and I always wanted to write this book and then, you know, I was at a, an event at our church, um, my wife and I and her mom and a couple of people who live in the condo, we went there and it was kind of a slap motivational slash, how do we revitalize the Catholic church kind of talk?
And it was three hours long and, and now the guy that was talking, talked for 45 minutes and he'd take a 15 minute break. And every time he took a break. I'd go up and talk to him because he was doing what I wanted to do, get out and talk to people. And, and he gave me a bunch of good things. And then at the [00:04:00] very end, we got done talking and he turned around to leave.
And then he stopped and he turned around and he said, Oak, have you written a book? And I said, no, but I'm thinking about it. And he said, stop thinking about it and write it. So I went home that night, wrote out the table of contents, and then I started the next day. That was the 16th of February, and I published it on the 12th of February the next year.
Leighann Lovely: Oh, wow. So a simple,
Oakland McCulloch: I just had to have permission,
Leighann Lovely: I guess, right? Well, and sometimes that's what it takes, right? Somebody's finally saying, Hey, you need to finally do this. You need to do this. Um, and maybe it's not necessarily permission, but that that confirmation from somebody saying. Yeah. You, you need to do this.
Oakland McCulloch: Yeah. And that's kind of what he was saying. You know, the, the message just from the short talks we had during that time, he, he, he said, look, you got a message that needs to get out there. You need to write that book. Well,
Leighann Lovely: that's awesome. [00:05:00] That's awesome. So you obviously have had a wealth of experience in leadership positions in combat, which is at a very, Yeah.
I've never been in combat, so I'm going to, I'm going to make some assumptions here. Um, I'm going to assume that these are high stress. Yeah. They're, um, you know, you've got a lot of people looking at you for answers, for guidance, for direct orders. Um, and, and it sounds like, you know, you also lower stress, you know, positions where it's more.
And when I say lower stress, you know, a boardroom compared to combat, obviously for some people,
Oakland McCulloch: there's still stress, but correct. It's just
Leighann Lovely: completely different, right? When you come back, you [00:06:00] know, when you, when you were comparing, you know, we're not comparing apples to apples here. We're comparing obviously, you know, a banana to a, an apple and it's a completely different shape.
So tell me a little bit about what you. Learned one about yourself. And two, about just, I guess, the human condition when it comes to how you process in those different leadership roles.
Oakland McCulloch: Right. So, I guess what I learned about myself, and I've had people tell me that absolutely this is true about me, is I quickly realized that, You have to maintain your call, no matter what's going on around you, you got to maintain your calm, at least outward.
Even if you're panicked on the inside, you can't show that because the people that you lead are going to take their cue from you. And if you're panicked, they're going to panic. If you're calm, they're going to remain at least a little more calm. Um, so [00:07:00] I think that if nothing else, that was one of the things that I really learned, um, about myself and, and, and try.
Always to maintain that calm demeanor, no matter what's going on around me. Um, and I think, you know, the thing I learned about leadership in all those situations that in the last 40 years is two things, number one, leadership is about people. Plain and simple. It's not about flow charts. It's not about organizational charts.
It's about one to one individual connections and people. And the second part of that is that people aren't going to follow you, especially in dangerous situations. situations if they don't trust you. Uh, and so I talk a lot about what I call 360 degree trust that, you know, until people trust you, you may be the leader by name, by title, but you're not really the leader until they trust you.
[00:08:00] Wow.
Leighann Lovely: And, and I want to, I want to take a second to really think about that because we have a great deal of people in leadership roles that many feel And reality is the way we feel, right? Our feelings drive our decisions. Our feelings drive the way that what drive, what we do, how we react. So the way that people make us feel is really, it becomes the reality that we live in.
And so if you have a leader who makes you feel that you have to do something versus want to do something big difference, Correct. And so you're talking, you're, you're, you're very much talking to the, and I'm going to bring this back to, you know, the sales. If you have a leader that you've become, you've come to know, come to like, and come to trust.
[00:09:00] You've just sold your entire team on buying into. 100%,
Oakland McCulloch: 100%, you know, and, and that's 1 of the things that I, that I see that I, that I always try to emphasize to people because as I go around and talk to people, organizations and companies and, uh, whatever 1 of the things that I, I notice is that there's no community there.
There's not really a team, there's people who come to work and they draw their paycheck and they go home, but they, you know, they may not even know anybody, they may know the person's name because they send them an email, but they don't know that person if they passed them in the hallway, they might not even know who they are.
And I always say, you know, You got to build a team, a community, um, in your organization. And it starts with you, the leader. If you don't get out there and make that effort and show people how important it is, then they're not going to make that effort. And one of the things I always tell people, leaders is a [00:10:00] couple of ways to make that happen.
Number one, get out from behind your desk and get out there and walk around and. Actually, talk to people and get to know them. The more they get to know you, the more they're going to trust you. Now, that goes 2 ways. You know, if you get to know them, they're going to get to know they got to, you got to let them get to know you.
So you got to feel comfortable with that. But, but that that's huge and there's a couple of ways to do that. Number 1, get out from behind your desk, walk around number 2, I tell, especially young leaders, but all leaders that I get a chance to talk to, you should make it a goal. Every day to go out and find one person in your organization that you are responsible for, find one person and find out one new thing about that person.
Every day, just one, just one person, one thing, and not about work. You can eventually bring it back to work if you want, but find out something personal about that person. Find out their spouse's name, their kid's name, what [00:11:00] sports do their kids play? What's their hobbies? What do they like? What don't they like?
Those kinds of things. And the more you do that. the more trust and community you're going to build. And then I also tell them, um, you know, if you're lucky, I had a boss who retired a three star general, and he said, Oak, never, ever, ever turned down a chance to go get your own cup of coffee. He said, I don't care how high up you get in your organization, always go get your own cup of coffee.
He said, for two reasons. Number one, first of all, it shows everybody that works for you that you're no better than they are. You got to go get your own cup of coffee, just like they do. And number two, If you're lucky, you got two or three different ways to get to the coffee pot and back to your office and along the way, stop and talk to people.
Leighann Lovely: And that's amazing, brilliant advice. Because so often we, that are below that leader or who are, you know, looking up to that, [00:12:00] Um, it goes back to, um, you know, the idea that these people who are in leadership positions are looking down and making decisions that they, and, and often you hear this from manufacturing floors, you hear this from, and they're like, well, how are they making these decisions?
Do they even know what we're doing? Do they even understand the grind that we have to go through? You know, how are they? And so when you. When you actually see that they're just as human that they put their pants on exactly the same way that we do that. Oh, okay. This this is a human being just like me.
That's where that connection
Oakland McCulloch: begins. It does. And until until you make that connection, it is just people coming to work and drawing a paycheck and going home. Yeah, yeah. One, one. So that's between you and the person, the people you are leading. And then I'd say, look, you also got to build that team where everybody in your organization trusts everybody else.
That's that [00:13:00] part of that 360. It's not just the people you lead trusting you. You got to trust the people that you lead. And then the people in the organization have to trust each other as well. And there's a couple of ways to make that happen. Have some events, you know, social events or lunches, you know, to where people have to come together and talk and, and get to know each other.
And, and that's huge. Um, and then the second, the last part of that 360 degree trust is. If you're in a business, you got to build a relationship with the people outside your organization. Cause nobody's going to do business with you if they don't trust you. And I hope you don't do business with somebody else.
Just for the money, if you don't trust them. So it really is that 360 degree trust. And it, if you're missing any one of those, then your organization is not going to be running as effective and efficiently as it could be.
Leighann Lovely: [00:14:00] Right. And that's, this lends right to sales. I mean, it directly into. Um, the whole idea and the whole idea that everybody, and this goes back to my very first episode when I talked with Sarah Bauer about everybody is selling at any given time.
We start, we start selling from the time that we're infants. We just don't know it. My daughter negotiates with me on a regular basis about how, you know, she's going to get ice cream if she eats this one last bite.
Oakland McCulloch: Sorry. Yeah. Anybody, you know, at my last 12 years, I just retired in one October, but the last 12 years I was recruiting for army ROTC and I had a bunch of buddies who were doing the same thing and, and I had one of them one time tell me, well, I'm not a salesman.
I said, bull, you absolutely are. We all are. We all [00:15:00] sell every day. I don't care what, who you are, what profession you are. You know, it is all about that. And you can't do it if people don't trust you.
Leighann Lovely: Right. And I hear that people, I, what you just said, I'm not a salesman. Well, let's, let's really take a look.
Every, everybody who becomes a parent becomes a salesperson the moment that child is born. is born, but they have been, they have been their whole life, but it becomes even more apparent when they become a parent. Um, so let's, let's talk about that because you and I had talked about, um, you know, the difference between leadership and unselfish leadership.
And let's, let's talk a little bit about the unselfish leader As a sales leader, because I think this is ever more important because in an industry as a salesperson, those people who choose [00:16:00] sales as a career are wildly competitive. Sure.
Oakland McCulloch: And that's a good thing.
Leighann Lovely: Absolutely. It is a good thing. We need to be, we need to have, and some people are not driven a hundred percent by the money.
They're driven by a competitive edge for something else. But a lot of salespeople are like, yeah, if I can write my own, my own check, Hey, that's what I want to do. But many of, you know, some of these salespeople are then pushed into leadership and still have that selfish, still have that. So let's talk about the key.
Components of being a. Good sales
Oakland McCulloch: leader. Yeah. So I, I think I, I'm 100%. Look, there's nobody more competitive than I am. I mean, I don't care if I'm playing old maid with my nine year old daughter or 10 year old granddaughter, I want to win. I, you know, that, that just, I, I, I was raised, uh, that you [00:17:00] want to win.
Um, my father literally beat that into me as a kid. Um, so I, I, I think nothing wrong with that. That's that's what that's what created this great country. We live in this competitiveness. Um, and that's okay. I think the key to it is to be the selfish leader selfless leader is to understand that. Okay. It's okay to win, but it's also you got to include everybody else just because you win doesn't mean somebody else can't win as well.
They may not win at the same level, but you're raising people along the way. Um, to make them better as well. And in the end, that's going to make your organization better. Not only are you winning, but if everybody else is winning and they're getting a little bit better at everything they do, that's, in the end, that's going to make your organization better.
And, and one of the things that I'm always, I'm adamant about, look, we all have egos. Anybody who tells you they don't have an ego is lying to you. We all [00:18:00] have an ego and that's okay because that's what drives us to be the best we can be at whatever we're doing. So that there's no, nothing wrong with having an ego.
The good selfless leaders understand when to put that ego aside. That it isn't about them anymore. It's about somebody else. It's about the team. It's about an individual on the team and the good leaders, in my opinion, the ones out there that are good leaders know when to put that ego aside.
Leighann Lovely: And how, you know, again, you know, competitive land here is like, yes, I just won this.
And, and there have been times where you get so hyper focused. So have there been times where you're like, Oh, Perfect example that you gave, you know, you're playing, you said Old Maid with your 13 year old. And there have been times where my daughter isn't, you know, crying and I'm just one and I'm like, yeah, I just won.
And I'm like, [00:19:00] oh crap, she's crying, but she has to learn to lose. We all have to, you can't, you can't, you know, pretend like, oh, I'm going to throw this game in order to win, you know, in order to become as competitive, you know, you have to learn What it's like to, to lose, to fail.
Oakland McCulloch: That's what, that's what drives you to be better.
Cause you don't like that feeling. So, so, so you, you want to get better so that you can. And you know, one of the things that I, that I, I'm, I believe in is that when you beat somebody or you win, then it becomes a, a teaching moment. You know, whether it's my 10 year old granddaughter or it's somebody that.
That I'm leading when they don't do something as well as they could have, then that becomes a teaching moment. And, you know, I, I'm a firm believer. I, I don't believe you learn from experience. You learn from reflection, reflection on that experience. Yes. That's how you learn. [00:20:00] So if you don't win a game, then you stop and you say, okay.
What went wrong? Where did I not do the best? I could become the best I could be or do the best I could do with that. And I teach my grandchildren that I say, okay, you did well, but here's, you could do better if you did this. And I used to use it with my, the people that work for me as well. I'd say, okay, this is what we were supposed to do.
This is what we did now. Let's sit down and figure out how we make up that difference what we were supposed to do versus what we did. And if you do that, then it doesn't become I'm better than you are. It's okay. We did well here. I did well here, but you can do as well. We just got to figure out that difference and you coach them.
And again, you know, the thing that I always tell leaders is you can't be selfish. You can't say, okay, it's about [00:21:00] me. Cause it isn't about you, you know, it, it isn't about how much money you made this year, it's about making everybody else better. And if you made a. amount of money this year, if you make everybody else on your team better, you're going to make even more next year.
And that's okay. Nothing wrong with that. That's I'm not against making money, but we also got to remember that we got to make everybody else on the team better as well. And if you do that, I promise you your organization is going to get better because the better you make the people that you're leading, the better your organization is going to be.
And in the end, you're going to get what you want, but you got it for the right reasons. Not because you were selfish. But because you help somebody else become a better person and a better worker,
Leighann Lovely: right? So I have a story for you about a motivational speech that I had a old, um, colleague of mine and that I overheard him giving, and I want to get your opinion on this of the motivational speech starts [00:22:00] off with, I have a really big house.
I have a really nice car. I have this. I have that. Would you like to have that stuff? Yeah. And then goes on to say, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. If you just do a little bit better, you can work your way to having this stuff.
Oakland McCulloch: My opinion, that's horrible. Um, so, so one of the things I, I've had my hand in commissioning over 580 second lieutenants for the United States army and for this country.
And the thing I always told every single one of them is. Look, leadership, it's, it's about selfless leadership that I believe that and those are the best leaders. Selfless service is what it's all about. I said, think of it this way. It is not about you [00:23:00] and yet it's all about you. It's not about you and the title you get or the privileges you get or that you get better pay and you live in a nicer house and drive a nicer car.
Let's face it, leaders get those things sometimes and that's okay. As long as that's not the only reason you want to be the leader. If it is, go do something else because you're never going to be a good one. It is all about you and how you treat and empower and coach and mentor the people you have the privilege to lead.
And if you remember that piece of it, and again, you know, because I, especially 18, 19, 20 year old kids, they'd say, well, I want that next promotion. I want my next pay raise. And I'd always say, well, look, you can get both. You can, if you take care of people and make them better, they're going to make your organization better, which means you're, you're going to get your promotion.
You're going to get your pay raise, but again, you get it for the right reasons, not because you were selfish, but because you helped other people.
Leighann Lovely: Absolutely. And that was an early on [00:24:00] mistake in my own career is that
Oakland McCulloch: we all make that mistake.
Leighann Lovely: Right. Right. And I remember my boss and exactly, as you said, I was, this was in the HR realm where, and my boss said, you need, you need to make a point to get up from your desk.
And walk around the building and learn who the people are that you serve working in HR. And I was like, well, if they need something, they can come to me. And she's like, you're not listening to me. And I'm like, well, what do you mean? Like, I don't want to go bother them while they're working. And she's like, they need to know that human resources.
And this was way before, you know, 2006, seven, eight, when. You know, this was when we actually like took care of our people and we really wanted to know our people. And we really want to, before HR departments is slim, you know, slim down to, you know, the person that was taking care of everything and didn't have time for anything.
And now we have people leaders [00:25:00] and we have, you know, anyways, and, and I was just missing the point. Like, why do you want me to go waste my time talking to people? Why do you, I don't get it. Um, yeah. And she was a great leader trying to instill in me the importance of knowing your people. Yeah,
Oakland McCulloch: again, and just as important than knowing you.
Correct. And especially in today's world where it's all text messages and emails and phone calls and people don't get out of their office and they don't go meet people, you know, and I, I've had Organizations, he said, you know, my guy, my guys and gals just don't communicate. Well, face to face. He said, you know, they send text messages, they email, they phone call.
But if John walked down the hall, they wouldn't even know who John is. They know his name because they send all those things to him, but they, they don't know who he is. And I said, well, there's a way to fix that. I said, every Friday, make in your office. Now, outside your office, I got it. You got to send [00:26:00] emails, phone calls, text messages, but inside your office building on Friday, there are no emails, no phone calls, no text messages.
If you want to talk to John, you get up out of your chair and you go find John and you go talk to him. And he said, and he implemented that. And he said, Within a month, what an amazing difference. People would pass in the hallway and they'd say, Hey John, how are you today? And they'd actually talk to each other and they knew who each other were.
And it's that simple. That's part of building that community. Building that trust. Because if I send you a text, that doesn't mean you're going to trust me. You don't know me. But if I see you in the hallway and you know who I am, and we talk a little bit, then that trust starts to build. And that's You can't build a team without trust.
Vince Lombardi, probably the not probably he was the greatest football coach that ever coached. He said, Look, a team is not a group of people who play together. The team is a group of people who trust each [00:27:00] other. And it's pick a profession. It doesn't matter. It's the same no matter what profession it is.
Leighann Lovely: Back in the day. I mean, we had a we had a 50 plus group of people. And that, you know, that was at the beginning. Um, it was a company that I worked for recruiting. We knew every single person in the building. I mean, we, when we needed something, we stood up and we walked over and we talked to him. This was a very large, you know, it was all the cubicles and everybody sat in a cube farms everywhere.
It was, you know, you, They're, they're right there. Stand up, walk over, talk to them. Why are you going to send an email and then wait two hours to get the answer that you need when they're literally sitting three cube farms away?
Oakland McCulloch: Absolutely. I had that experience. I was in the army. I, I was working with a guy and he was in charge and, and I, I worked for him and literally there was a wall between us and there was a doorway.[00:28:00]
So I, you had to go through my office to get to his office just happened to be there and there were, you know, five or six other people in that in my office as well. It wasn't just me, but literally, I mean, I was at my desk and I could look do like this and I could see him in his office. He was sending me email messages.
And finally I just said, stop. If you want something, just scream out. I can answer you. I mean, you don't have to scream. We can talk like this and I can answer you. Stop sending me email messages. Right. I mean, we've gotten to that point where, where we have forgotten the importance of face to face. Human reaction of relationship and you see it, especially in this younger generation where they think they believe I've read polls and articles where they believe somebody they've met online and never seen in person is just as good a friend to them as the person That's sitting right next to them.
And we got to [00:29:00] get away from that. We got to get back to the, now I'm not saying that's not important. We, we, you know, we wouldn't be doing this if it wasn't for this technology, but this does not replace face to face relationship. And especially in a business where that is so huge. And inside your organization and out, if you're a salesperson and you're not going out and actually seeing the people you're trying to sell something to, I guarantee you, I'm going to sell to them before you do, because I'm going to go see them and I'm going to build that relationship.
Well,
Leighann Lovely: absolutely. And I've heard a lot of people say, you know, cold calling is dead. I've heard a lot of people say, Oh, that's a thing in the past. You're, you're not going to be able to. And I'm like, yeah, but have you ever sold a large Have you ever made a large sale, made a full commitment and gotten a full commitment from somebody that you've never physically met or at least had a face to face conversation with?
Yes, I've had sales via zoom. It happens now because [00:30:00] again, I I've sold internationally, but it's through a text message or through just emailing. No, I've never had it like close because it comes down to, well, How do you trust somebody? How do you trust that that person is even who they say they
Oakland McCulloch: are?
Exactly. Well, you know, again, I recruited for the last 12 years at a university here for Army ROTC and, and I was pretty successful. I was recruiter of the year in 2019. I brought in 158 freshmen into our program and that's bigger than some, ROTC, most ROTC programs are. And every year I was bringing in 100 to 150 freshmen.
And somebody asked me one day how I did it. I said, first of all, I, I do send out an email and I explain me and the program and, and, uh, and then, then I follow that up with a phone call. And then I try to get them to [00:31:00] come down for a visit. And I always told people, look, if I can get that young man or that young lady in my office with their parents, that's even better.
But even without the parents, if I can get them into my office, they're coming to my school. Guaranteed, I don't lose people, um, except to academies. That was a hard one to compete with. But other than that, I mean, I brought, they came, came to our program and it's all about that personalized thing. You know, the email set it up.
Then a phone call and then hopefully, uh, either a zoom or a face to face if I could get a face to face, it was, it was a done deal. That's
Leighann Lovely: awesome. And that again is about once you figure out and see now my sales brain is working, but once you figure out that process, once you figure out what works. And it's never going to just be an email.
I mean, I can email somebody 15 [00:32:00] times and usually if I have to email them 15 times, they're going to email me back saying, stop emailing me.
Oakland McCulloch: Yeah. If I wanted, I'll email you. Yeah. Correct. And I was careful. You know, I didn't over. Try to sell on the first thing. I just said this. Look, you're interested.
Obviously, you applied for an Army ROTC scholarship and applied. Put our school down as one of your choices. So here's what we have to offer. If you're interested, let's hop on a phone call. Right. And almost all of them would at least hop on a phone call. That doesn't mean I got all those, but I, at least I had an opportunity that just takes me another step toward building that relationship.
And then we go from there. Um, so I, I think, you know, you got to figure out what works for you. No doubt about it, because there are no cookie cutter solutions. Let's be honest. No, it's all based on your personality and what you're trying to sell and what Well, you know, but you, but [00:33:00] I don't care what it is.
You got to build the relationship because if you don't, somebody that does is going to outsell you. I promise you 100%.
Leighann Lovely: Absolutely. It all comes down to the relationship. It all comes down to the relationship and the relationship with your community and the referrals that your community and trust. I mean, if you can get a referral, you've already has, you already have that buffer of built in trust.
That's right. And then, you
Oakland McCulloch: know, Somebody trusted you or they wouldn't have referred you.
Leighann Lovely: Correct, correct. Well, we are coming to time. So I want to give you the opportunity for your 30 seconds shameless pitch. Um, so, you know, go ahead, plug
Oakland McCulloch: yourself. So, um, I, I, I retired from my day job one October. Now I'm concentrating on getting out and talking to as many people as I can as a keynote speaker.
So I talk about leadership. I talk about again, everyday things. I don't talk about. Theory, and I custom build every single keynote to what you want. [00:34:00] Um, I can honestly say I've never given 2 talks that were exactly the same. Um, and if you want to get in touch with me, I've got my website is LTCOMccullough.com and on there, it's got all my social media. It's got my cell phone number. It's got my email address. Get in touch with me and I'd love to have that conversation with you.
Leighann Lovely: Awesome. And your, um, contact information will be in the show notes so that if somebody wants to reach out, um, I know that you have, you have quite a few speaking engagements coming up, actually.
So, um, that is awesome. But if somebody does want to reach out to Oak, please check the show notes and you can, um, find his links there. Oak, it's been such an amazing, excuse me, I'm losing my voice. It's been such an amazing conversation. I really appreciate you coming on and talking with me today.
Oakland McCulloch: Yeah, well, I appreciate it.
I, you know, and you always know when, when you're having a good time because 30 minutes gets bought by like
Leighann Lovely: that. I know. I know it does. It does.
 

Mastering Communication Styles for Sales Success

In this episode we dive into the intricacies of communication in sales and leadership. Brian Hendricks, a seasoned performance coach and best-selling author, who shares his expertise on team development, communication, and leadership. They delve into understanding communication styles, the DISC and Social Styles assessments, the significance of 360-degree assessment, and its impact on effective leadership. Don't miss this enlightening conversation on improving communication and effectiveness in sales.
 
Contact Brian –
Website - www.dynamicdevelopments.net
E-mail Brian - BrianHendricks@dynamicdevelopments.net
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/dynamic.developments/
 
Special Thank you to our Sponsor Genhead – www.genhead.com
 
Robb Conlon – Intro and outro – Westport Studio - https://www.westportstudiosllc.com/
 
The Brave Ones – Instrumental Version Song by Jan Sanejko - https://artlist.io/royalty-free-music/song/the-brave-ones/119489
 
Leighann Lovely: Welcome to another episode of Love Your Sales. I am joined today by Brian Hendricks. He is the CEO of Dynamic Developments, a performance coach and bestselling author of The Communicator's Playbook. He is dedicated to transforming leaders into effective communicators. He specializes in team focused, client focused, and organizational focused development and empowers leaders and teams to reach their full [00:02:00] potential. He has a master's degree in leadership and counseling. He is married and has three children, all six and under.
Brian Hendricks: The Hendricks house is not boring.
Leighann Lovely: Yes. So welcome. I am very excited to have you join me today.
Brian Hendricks: Yeah. Thank you for having me. I appreciate the opportunity to get up here and talk about kind of communications, but from a sales aspect, which
Leighann Lovely: is really cool. Well, and, and so much, um, there's so many companies that forget, um, and which is why I'm wildly excited to talk to you. So many communication or so many companies forget that the lack of communication sets their individuals.
Uh, for failure right from the get go, if they are not focusing on the importance of how that communication flows, not only verbally, verbally, but also in writing or however they choose to do that. [00:03:00] So why don't we start with where you start when you're working with an organization on that effective communication piece?
Brian Hendricks: Yeah. So, uh, for us, we develop a process that's called the RQ process. And really it's a way to. communicate out exactly what I need from a leadership standpoint, but to make sure that the person is actually hearing what I want them to hear. Because so many times, you know, uh, I've talked to whether it's a CEO or it's the VP of sales or whoever they say, I told this person a million times, you know, a million times I said it and they gave me the head nod.
Everyone knows the universal sign for, I understand is the head nod. And then that team member goes out. And completely bumps or forgets everything and so many times leadership or leaders have said, well, that's on them like, no, no, no, that's on you. That's on you. The sales leader, the VP of sales, the whoever it is, that's on you because you didn't check to make [00:04:00] sure that they understood because you didn't adjust your communication approach.
to what their style is and to what their knowledge level. So for us, this is where this idea of our cubing comes in. And, and the first piece, the first R is to rethink. Okay. And you have to rethink what you're going into. What am I trying to get out of the situation? What am I trying to teach this person?
Um, is this going to be a positive or negative conversation? So there's all these different thoughts that go into, you know, any training. Scenario, anytime I'm dealing with a client, it's okay. I need to stop and put away my preconceived notions. I can take my, uh, I always do four to four breathing. There's box breathing and just take those deep breaths before you go into that conversation and really rethink your thoughts.
Okay. Like regroup, regroup everything together, regroup all of those thoughts together. So that's that first time I said, rethink, I meant regroup because I was jumping to the thought. So, so regroup is that first one. Then you have to go [00:05:00] in and, and start to actually reorganize three specific things and all communication comes down to is your words, your tone, and your body language.
And that's what you have to start reorganizing and you have to start reorganizing it based on what that other person needs. And I'll get to how we figure that out in a second, but it's all based on how, you know, when I'm talking to you, do I need to pick up that pace in my work, in my tone? Do I need to slow it down?
Do I need to get bigger because you're a confident person? Do I need to just be more relaxed because you're more relaxed? Like trying to reorganize my words, my tone by my body language. And the last piece where I really want to get into, you know, today from a communication standpoint is actually re delivering that message and actually communicating it out.
Um, and I think so many times people focus on re delivering that message based on someone's communication style. And you can figure out communication style based on, you know, disc training, social styles is, is my all time favorite Myers Briggs, um, insights discovery. I mean, [00:06:00] all of those can come out with what does that other person, like, what is their style and how do I adjust to that?
Right.
Leighann Lovely: And I was going to ask you, you know, there's a lot of, and I've, I've met people who will write out before I've even had the chance to, you know, sit down and have a discovery or have a, Do my pitch. They'll say, Hey, by the way, I'm a high D or I'm a, I'm a high C. And I'm like, wow, that makes my way
Brian Hendricks: much easier.
Leighann Lovely: Yeah. I'm like, okay, now I know exactly how to deliver the information, but the majority of the population don't go, Hey, Brian, before we talk, I just want you to know. I'm a high, whatever,
Brian Hendricks: I'm an expressive, like, so please treat me this way. Right, right. Absolutely. And I think that's where, when you, that's where you have to, you know, either invest in yourself or have an owner of a company invest into social [00:07:00] styles, into disc, into insights, because most people aren't going to jump in and be like, Hey, I'm an expressive.
So now I know, all right, I'm going to make eye contact with Brian. I'm going to use my hands. I'm going to do all these things to make Brian comfortable. That's not how most people are. Right. Once you're trained in this stuff. You can watch and observe other's behavior and start realizing, all right, they're not making eye contact with me here.
They're being a little bit more monotone and they're really focusing on facts and details. I bet you any money that person's an analytical. So Brian, the expressive, I'm not coming into that sales pitch or, you know, if I'm training someone on, on sales, I'm not coming in and being all rah, rah, excited because that person's shutting down right away.
What Brian, the expressive is going to do is I'm going to tone down that expressiveness. I'm going to slow down my rate of speech. I'm going to make sure that I take you step by step by step and give you more facts and more details than what I would probably like. But that's what [00:08:00] you need because you're that analytical stuff.
Right. And it's all about making those slight adjustments to make that other person feel comfortable.
Leighann Lovely: Right. And that's while the, you know, if you were to come at me with all these facts and, and, and again, I, you know, personally, I'm a high I, high D, I. Which I have to battle on a regular basis, um, because there are a lot of people out there are like, well, well, I can't, she's too much, um, which I, you know, I regularly have to try to taper down, um, you know, for, uh, I, I, Variety of reasons, but if I'm trying to explain something, especially my, my husband, you know, he's like, give me the short and skinny facts.
How is this going to get me to point A to point B to point C? Like, he just wants to know the factual information on how to get. So if. I'm a sales leader trying to [00:09:00] train somebody new and I come in with my rah, rah, okay, I'm going to, all that information I'm going to assume is going to just go over their head and they're going to be like, I'm way overwhelmed.
I heard pretty much nothing from, after the first. 30 seconds of them being in my face trying to rally me up. Am I getting that
Brian Hendricks: right? A hundred percent. And I'd say the exact opposite is true. You know, if you're more on that expressive side or that high eye side and you have a, you know, you as a sales leader has, has this new employee and you come in and you just take them through, you know, your operating procedures, you take them through step by step by step and you go through all just the details, but you're not checking in on them.
Hey, how's it going? You're not, you're not being excited about it. That expressive or that high eye is going to shut down because now all you've given me is details You're not connecting it to a bigger picture a bigger goal, which is what drives those eyes And so it goes either way. I mean in with the [00:10:00] D's D's and S's polar opposites So that's one of the things that I think gets missed a lot is it's great to know who you are But it's better to know what your team is and what your sales people are so that I can get my message across best to you, best to her, best to him.
It's gotta be the same message, but I'm gonna have to communicate it differently because each of you need a different thing.
Leighann Lovely: Very interesting. Wildly interesting because now I, now I'm going to pose a question. So what happens if you're onboarding three people at the same time? Three. I'm holding, I'm holding up four fingers, three, three people.
No. So what happens if you're onboarding three people and they're on complete opposite spectrums, personality, you know, what their needs, what their desires, what their drivers are?
Brian Hendricks: Yeah, absolutely. And this is a process that we created. It's called the dynamic communication process. Um, and this is how you handle that.
Because a lot of times when you're doing sales training, [00:11:00] when you're, when you're doing it, we'll take it even further when you're pitching to people, a lot of times you're pitching to more than one person. Right. So you have to get your message across. What we've seen is traditionally how it's gone is here's what we're doing.
Here's how we're going to do it. Whether it's training, whether it's pitching, it's like, Hey, here's what we can do for you. Here's how we're going to get it done. Well, if you stop at that. And all the data kind of shows you're going to hit about 50 percent of the population because 50 percent of the population, they want the bottom line.
What do you want from me? Or sorry, 25 percent of population wants the bottom line about 25 percent wants those details. So here's what happens. Here's how we get it done. You're not answering any other questions for those other 50 percent for those people that are known as, you know, expressive or amiable or the eyes and the S's they're not, you're not winning them over at all.
They're not learning in that onboarding process because those eyes, those expresses, they need to know how does this. Affect the [00:12:00] big idea, how does this affect longterm goals, what those S's need, what those annual people need, they need to know that this is the right thing for them individually, that this is the right thing for our company, for our clients.
So instead of just saying what traditionally everyone has done. Is here's what's happening. Here's how you do it, especially from a onboarding prospect, you got to take it further. So not only is here's what's happening, here's how to do it. Then you have to answer the when question. So in the short term, you want to break it down to short term and long term.
So in the short term, take all those details. Here's what we're going to accomplish in the first week in your training. Here's what we're going to accomplish in the first three months. In the longterm, here's how it's going to affect you. Here's how it's going to make you better salesperson. Here's how you're going to get more clients because those eyes, if you remember from what we just talked about, eyes, too many details, they're going to shut down, but they still need to know the overall goal.
So break those details down. In the short term and long term, [00:13:00] so then you're bringing in 75%. You can't forget about the annual people or the, or those S's. So now, Hey, we're going to teach this out. Here's how it affects you. Where do we do it this way at our company? Here's how it's the right thing for you.
Here's how it's the right thing for our clients. And here's how it's the right thing for us as an organization. So now instead of just, here's what happens, here's how you do it, here's what happens, here's how you do it, here's the short term and the long term impact. And then here's the who, this is who it actually affects.
Now, all of a sudden you're starting to train people all, all different styles. And when you can communicate a message out that way, every single time, it doesn't matter who you're talking to. Because you've hit every style of communication by rolling out your communication that way.
Leighann Lovely: Very interesting. And you know, and it's interesting, you know, as somebody who, um, and I don't do the training, I don't do training and development in my business specifically because on a [00:14:00] large scale, I don't have what you have, which is the ability to notice, see, again, hi, I, hi, D, I'm, I'm like, off thinking about what the next thing is.
Yes. I'm, but I have the ability to see the problems as they are immediately. I'm one of those people who's like, Oh, I'm here. I'm seeing, I'm seeing where the gaps are. I can immediately pick up on those gaps, pick up on the problems, and then I can go, I see where your problems are. I know where you need to fix your problems.
And I can, I can help deliver on that on a small scale as a seasoned professional, as a seasoned salesperson. But when it comes to that large scale training and development and longterm, that's where somebody like you having that understanding. [00:15:00] Really deep dive understanding of all of those different personality types again.
My personality type does not bode well for that.
Brian Hendricks: Oh, and here's what I would say is, but, and part of what I believe in why I get so passionate about communication and training and everything is that you can train yourself to get good at it. Yes. Like that's the thing is like, yes, like, and I've worked with so many leaders and even in the sales role where they're so focused on numbers, numbers, numbers, got to hit profit, got to hit profit, got to hit this, got to hit our numbers.
And there would be considered that high D or that driver, like it's results, results, results. And they tend, and this is, you know, anecdotally, they tend to have high turnover with their sales reps. And it's because, well, for me, I'm so focused on the bottom line. I'm so focused on my numbers. I'm not communicating that out to my team, you know?
So for [00:16:00] example, Hey, if we hit our numbers this week, that can lead to X, Y, and Z rewards for you. Which then can maybe lead to a promote and all of a sudden those eyes are like, Oh, wait, so if I do this, my, and they start working at it, you know, when you're, Hey, you know, for those, for those S's and those annual people, Hey, yeah, look, we got to hit our numbers.
Like that's, there's no doubt about it, but if you're able to hit your numbers, you're actually gonna get a bonus. So remember how are you talking about how you want to get, you want to get that summer house for your kids? That's a way to start working at it. Right? When you hit your numbers during the week, you don't actually have to work later at night anymore towards the end of the quarter, so you can make all your kids games.
You're now connecting that bottom line to what's important to them. And I would love to say, hey, read a book, take my training, you fix it right away. It's like, no, you have to continually work through it and keep practicing and keep practicing just as anything until you can literally sit with someone.
And within five minutes, I have a pretty good idea of what your style is and [00:17:00] what's going to be important to you. Very interesting.
Leighann Lovely: See, and, and I'm just, well, I just run into a room and start talking,
Brian Hendricks: right? It's so many of those eyes and those DS, those expressive, they do. And if you think about just think about to maybe your last sales meeting and this is for all your listeners out there.
And, you know, sales, salespeople tend to be more expressive drivers, you know, those eyes and those, he doesn't mean you don't have people that are more on the ask assertive what I call them, you know, the analytical is the animals, the S's, the C's, whatever you use. Um, but what I would argue is that your last meeting you were in or think of your last sales meeting, like when you were actually like pitching a client, the people that talk the most are those eyes, those DS, those drivers, the expressives.
If we were to take the time and maybe even, um, you know, say beforehand, we're looking for input from everybody or [00:18:00] direct our questions to those other styles that don't talk as much. You're going to get even a lot more from them because they're the ones coming with the facts with the data, right? They're the ones coming with this people centric perspective that that's what takes sales to the next level.
It's not only you're going to hit your numbers, but you go with us. Your people are going to be happier. Your turnover is going to get whatever it is, but until you loop in all four of those styles, you're not going to get the whole picture of any organization. You're not going to get the whole picture of your own sales team.
If you can't connect to those reps that are, that are a different style.
Leighann Lovely: Yeah, no. And I, I. I completely agree. And there, and I can't remember what the statistics are, but there's a huge number of turnover in salespeople because of the lack of understanding those different styles from a turnover standpoint, from a three month to a six month.
Um, because often sales people, people, let me rephrase often management. Um, looks at [00:19:00] salespeople as being those assumes salespeople are those extrovert salespeople like absolutely people. They assume that they're able to just step into a role and be able to take control and, and do what is necessary to get there.
And so often salespeople are kind of thrown to the wolves and they're like, okay, go out and sell. Right. The. Um, the problem, and, and this is coming from somebody who's been in multiple different roles and been a contractor in multiple different roles in order to help with figuring out why can't we keep salespeople?
And that information up front is not delivered. It's not, you know, and, and so I've, I've had to step into, you know, really the analytical position of, okay, well. Um, where's the information, where's your, you know, your mini database of all of your material, [00:20:00] where's the, you know, who do I go to for X, Y, and Z, how do I, and this is ever more important in a world where we are now remote even more, where our boss may be in another state and we can't physically walk up to him and say, Hey, I need, you know, I need this, I need that.
I need this in order to be successful. I need to have a clear understanding of my pricing structure. I need to have, and they're just like, well, didn't you go through this in the onboarding? And this happens a great deal with large organizations where you have your HR department doing the initial onboarding and you're supposed to have your manager doing another piece.
And he's going, well, didn't this person do this and didn't this person, it also comes down to. Do you prefer your information to be verbal? Do you prefer your information to be written, [00:21:00] video? You need to
Brian Hendricks: take it, you need to have me watch you go through it to do it? Yeah. Well, and I think too, to that point, you know, we talk about, you know, re delivering that message out, that last R is about communication style, but I take it a little bit even further than that.
It's about knowledge level. So whatever, you know, theory of development you use, we use something called the life cycle of growth. Basically it says that humans develop in four phases. So when they learn something brand new, when they get brought into an organization, when kids learn how to throw a baseball.
It's four phases of development. Um, and that very first phase is when people are onboarding. It's this unconsciously unable, I like to say they don't know what they don't know. They don't know how to use the CRM. Now let's say, Oh no, that person, they came from company XYZ. They had the same CRM. You have it set up.
differently than they did. So even those great sales reps who've been great sales reps, when they come to your organization, they have to learn how [00:22:00] you do it. They have to learn how your culture sees things. They have to learn your processes. And I think so many times in sales, especially as you mentioned is, Oh, you know, this person's coming in.
They've been a sales rep for years. They know what they're doing. If you have any questions, let me know. And it's like, well, shouldn't you be walking that person through when they're at that unconsciously unable stage? And what I see a lot is when we have, you know, young professionals, maybe it's their first sales job and they're coming in.
I get this all the time. Well, they don't ask questions. Why aren't they asking me questions? And I immediately look at the sales leader and I said, think back to when you don't know something and you're in a group setting, are you raising your hand? No. Well, why don't I ask? Why don't you raise your hand? I don't want to look dumb.
I want it. I want it to be like one of my boss is there and they think I can't do this anymore. So when you have those people that are brand new to your company, to your organization, to the workforce, it is your job as a leader to outline every [00:23:00] single thing for them. People say micromanaging is bad in three out of the four stages of development.
A hundred percent right. When you have someone who is unconsciously unable in that first stage, you have to micromanage them. Now, once they've learned, Yeah, I was gonna say, just once they've learned, then you take it off right away. Because now they're asking questions. Now they're like, oh, I know this, but I don't know this, so let me ask.
We as leaders, we get so frustrated with new employees with because they don't know and they're not asking questions. And I told them to ask me any questions. No, no, no. It is your job to outline everything for them.
Leighann Lovely: I remember in my first sales, my first real. Like corporate sales job. I had, I had like these little, you know, sales roles and, but my first real corporate sales, I pissed off every other salesperson because again, personality wise, I was never afraid to raise my hand and be like, am I supposed to know what ACH means?[00:24:00]
They're like, oh, well probably not if you've never been in a real corporate and you're dealing with payroll. They also did, you know, sold payroll services and I had never heard Mm-Hmm, , the acronym A CH. And everybody's throwing this around like, oh, this didn't go, this a CH didn't work. And I'm like, is this like, am I supposed to know what this means?
Right, right. And they're like,
Brian Hendricks: oh, let's go. Oh, thank you for asking that. Like, we were so happy you asked that question.
Leighann Lovely: Right. And then there was another acronym and I'm like. Am I supposed to know that one? Right. Absolutely. And they're like, no, probably not. And so then I just got to the point where I'm like, I don't want to sound stupid, but I don't know what you're talking about.
Brian Hendricks: Absolutely.
Leighann Lovely: Right. You know, and, and again, this was, you know, this was in my, my twenties and I'm, so I'm sitting there going, you know, late twenties, this is my second career. I was in HR beforehand and in HR. Again, corporate HR, you, you don't, I wasn't [00:25:00] payroll. I wasn't part of payroll. I was, so there were a lot of things that they assumed that I should know.
And I went, guys, I, I have no idea what some of these act. And again, companies make these assumptions like, Oh, Well, she's, you know, she's in her late twenties. She probably is going to know these things and you don't, a lot of people, and I've, I've looked at now, obviously in my forties when I don't know something, I'll just go, guys, I don't know.
But that is a learned thing. The older that you get, you go, you know what, I don't know what you're talking about. Like I've been around the block long enough that I, but in your twenties you go, I don't want to sound stupid. And it's like, that's something that goes with age when you're like. Yeah, if I sound stupid.
Brian Hendricks: That's right. It doesn't matter because I'd rather sound dumb right away and keep my job and be successful at my job then. Oh, [00:26:00] Brian. Brian's not figuring it out. Four
Leighann Lovely: months from now. Go you guys. I still don't know what ACH means. They're going to go. Wait, you've been here four months and you don't know what that means.
Right? I'd rather.
Brian Hendricks: No. And I think you're 100 percent right. And I think to me, like I hear that so often, And I, I don't put that on, I mean, I shouldn't say I don't, that part of that is that the team member's responsibility, right? To ask the question, but for me, it's more the responsibility of that manager or that leader, because you have to realize they literally don't know what they don't know.
Correct. You have to outline everything for them. I mean, oh, they get so frightened. I hear so many leaders. They get so frustrated, you know, oh, they're always doing X. I'm like, well, did you ever tell them not to do X? Well, they should know. Why should they know if you never explained that, then they would never know not to do that, you know, and that's, that's where it, for me, it's like, no, that's where we have to take responsibilities as leaders, as, [00:27:00] as director of sales, as VP of sales, whatever your title is for your team to train them the right way from the start.
Leighann Lovely: And if, and if you're not drilling it into somebody of. Hey, no question is a dumb question, but in six, six months from now, if you're still behind because you weren't asking the question up front, then, then we're going to be having a different conversation. So ask now, I would rather have you bombard me and ask.
And again, I pissed off all the sales people because they were like, Oh my God, we're going to be in this meeting for the next three hours. But at the end of the day, all of those sales people that in the first three weeks of me working there. Came to respect me because I then knew all of the things that I needed to know.
And I became a, I rose up and became a very good salesperson because I knew the information and [00:28:00] I wasn't afraid to go. I don't know this. I want to learn this. I want, however it is on the sales and they had a, they had a very good sales leader who was like, if you don't know this. Ask, we're going to go and have sales training.
We're going to learn. I mean, and they went down to the basics of how to ask open ended questions. How do you start an open ended question? It was, it was, uh, this was a great company to start as a first time corporate sales person. Um,
Brian Hendricks: well, and tying that into what we talked about before. The reason you were so comfortable with that person was probably because he was versatile or she was versatile in her, in their communication.
They adjusted the communication style to what you needed. So now that it all goes together, it's not one or the other. It's a, it's a both end situation.
Leighann Lovely: And that, and that makes all the difference between whether that person is going to choose to stay and whether or not that person is going to say, Hey, the heck with this [00:29:00] company not willing to work with me.
And again, I did a disc assessment before I started there and they understood how my, you know, how I learned. And this was many, many years ago when, when company, well, I think that was the rise. That was the beginning of the rise of. Those personality assessments. When you, you applied for any job and
Brian Hendricks: you like I do nothing.
Cause I can just show you my profile. I have it down.
Leighann Lovely: so Brian, you do you specialize in desk?
Brian Hendricks: Yeah. Your organization. Discs and social styles. And social styles. So those are the two. Yeah. So two, two again, very similar. Um, the biggest differences if, if people are wondering out there, cause you know, people have heard disc or hear social styles. Disc is, it's great.
It's wonderful. Uh, it's a self assessment only. Social styles is a 360 assessment. So you get your perception of yourself and then others perception of you. [00:30:00] So that's a, there's other things that we can go into on another show, but those are the, the, the, probably the biggest difference right there.
Leighann Lovely: And so explain to me the, um, the, the 360 so that, that I have a better understanding of, of.
How that one works.
Brian Hendricks: Yes. So the, the social styles assessment itself, I think it's about 49 questions. Um, and what you do is you fill out the survey based on yourself. So how do you think you communicate? How do you think you use your word, your tone, your body language? There's also a piece to it called versatility.
So how optimistic are you seeing from a leadership perspective? You know, how, um, how willing are you to fight for other people from a leadership perspective? So I should say that's another. Difference between disc and social styles. There's this a whole nother measurement called versatility with social styles, but the three 60 piece is the piece that I really love because you send it out to, uh, people who work above you.
So maybe who you report to, you can send it out [00:31:00] to people that are on your same level, you can send it to your team that reports directly to you. You can send it out to your clients who you have good relationships with. And what you're getting is you're getting other people's perception of how you communicate.
And what I can say, it's amazing because 50 percent of the time we see ourselves differently than how other people see us. And especially in the working world, perception truly does become reality and how I'm being perceived is so much more important than what I want to be. What are what I want to say?
You know, I've had people who, who come in, they're the nicest human beings they get on their results. I say, well, they're not a good listener. Uh, they're rude, they're forceful. And they're like, that doesn't sound like me at all. I'm like, that's not how you're trying to be perceived. But when you cut somebody off, because you're excited about that idea, that other person is taking offense to that.
That means you're not a good listener. And no, I am a good listener. I heard it. And then I want to do this. And I'm [00:32:00] like, that's not the perception of it. So then we talk, all right, well then let everybody get their thoughts out, let them get there and then say, I love that idea. Here's some additional things.
So it's, it's all about perception. I can't tell you how many times I have dealt with people who come and give me detail after detail, after detail, after detail. And in my head, I'm like, who cares about all this stuff right now? You know, and how about just a, Hey, Brian, how are you today? How's life going?
And then give me all the details. And in my head, I'm like, that person's just a jerk. They just don't care about me. When in reality. They're a really good person. They do care about what's going on in my life. But for them, we need to work right now. And when we're on break at when we go to happy hour, then we'll connect on it.
And so it's changing, it's twofold, I would say it's why I like the 360. One, it changes how I perceive everybody else communicating to me, realizing that most people aren't going to be versatile and they're going to communicate in a way that makes them comfortable. But secondly, [00:33:00] then I can work on my own communication to everybody else, because I'm being perceived in a way either that I like or that I don't like, and then I can adjust my communication based on how other people are seeing me.
And you don't get that with the self reflection. You get that with the 360 piece.
Leighann Lovely: That is amazing. And I would love to do that because, you know, it is, you do think I, I would assume, and I know that we should never assume, but that the majority of the people out in the world believe that they are communicating in a way that is kind and nice and to, to everybody.
Right? I mean, we as human beings don't assume Mean we don't try to go out and be assholes,
Brian Hendricks: right? It's so true It is well and every time every time I go through results with people They're like, I can't believe they think that [00:34:00] or I can't believe they see me that way I'm like, it's not saying that you are this big like you're not a mean rude person But that's the perception based on how you're interacting with them And we can control that.
I think that's what's cool about it too, is we can control that. That is under our control. How we control that is by taking a deep breath, back to that RQ process before I interact with someone. How am I going to use my words, my tone, my body language, and then how am I going to re deliver that message out?
Leighann Lovely: That's and you know what? I think that every, every salesperson. Um, should, that should be something that every salesperson does maybe every couple of years to really have, you know, an idea of the way that they are perceived not only by their clients, but by their community of referral sources, by their community of maybe even lost clients.
And to get an idea as to how am I and why [00:35:00] am I. Exactly. Exactly. Either rubbing people wrong or whatever it might be to, I mean, what a better way to grow as a human, as a person.
Brian Hendricks: And I think that's why I love. If you can tell I love doing this stuff, I love teaching this stuff and working with you because I see it at work, but then I also see it at home like I know my wife's style and and just a quick little story.
She is the exact opposite of me. She is very analytical, very amiable, like very like. Give me the facts, give me the details. If there's a problem, I'm not going to talk about it. I'm just going to keep it right in here. And then maybe, and if there's an issue, I'm gonna, I used to just blur it out. Now I realize, okay, don't just burp things out, like breathe rich and think about it.
Um, but an issue came up and something with her work related and my response, you know, years ago would have been like, sit down and talk about it right now. And then I don't want to talk about it and lead to a [00:36:00] confrontation. This time it was, Hey, that's awful. I can't believe that happened when you're ready to talk, I'm here two days later, we got breakfast and she unloaded everything.
And it was just, I understand what she needs from a communications and she does the exact same with me now. Cause she knows what I need. So yes, it works in sales. Yes. It works in organizations, but very selfishly, it works at home too, with your kids, with your spouse. It's, it's amazing when you learn.
Leighann Lovely: Yes.
And that has, because more and more as I've grown as a person in self discovery, I've changed my style with my daughter. I've also, I mean, my husband and I went through marriage counseling because we were constantly butting heads. And through that we, we picked out a very specific style of marriage counselor who really focused on communication, basically the exact same
Brian Hendricks: thing.
I can't tell you how many people have said, Hey, after the training, we will do training. And I can't, can you do this for spouses too? Like can we do spousal [00:37:00] training?
Leighann Lovely: Right. And I, and I specifically chose him based on what his. What his studies were and, and I'm like, okay, I'm, I'm, we're not going in this to talk about our emotions and our, we're going into this to talk about communication styles and how to break down barriers of X, Y, Z, like, because we don't have, we're not looking at divorce.
We're just looking at like, how can we figure out personality styles and better communicate? You know, it was just a little. I don't know, brush, what would you call it? Like brush up on getting better at whatever. It is. It's
Brian Hendricks: just how can we communicate better?
Leighann Lovely: Correct. And so going through that, all of a sudden I realized, oh my God, how have I been blind?
And you do, especially with somebody you're so close to and you become very close with coworkers. Um, but you, and you forget, like sometimes you, You forget, like, I've known him for so long [00:38:00] that there are times where I'm just like, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, uh, I just can't. And I make assumptions about what I think he's thinking.
And then, so we backed up and went, okay, wait a second. I need to allow him to speak for himself and I need to stop speaking for him in my own head.
Brian Hendricks: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I mean, and that's. One of my favorite quotes, and I always, I always like to joke that I came up with this, even though everyone knows this quote, it's you have to get comfortable being uncomfortable.
And when we look at relationships, whether at home with a client with, well, we have a good long term relationship with someone, we get comfortable in it. So what that means is maybe at first I was being very versatile with you. So I was giving you what you need, but at this point. You know me, this is who I am, so I'm just going to do this and it's, you almost need that training, that kick in the butt to be like, no, no, no, this is not a being versatile, doesn't just go away when you're [00:39:00] comfortable with someone, right?
You have to go back and get uncomfortable and communicate in that person's zone,
Leighann Lovely: right? There, there came a time in our relationship where I was like, every eggshells. And he looked at me and goes. Uh, no, no, no, no. That's how I feel. And I went, Oh, okay. We have a communication problem.
Brian Hendricks: There is a communication breakdown.
Absolutely.
Leighann Lovely: So, you know, again, okay. Enough about that. Anyways. So, Brian, we, we've, you know, covered a lot of ground. Great conversation. But I want to give you an opportunity to do your 30 second, second shameless pitch before we wrap up. Love
Brian Hendricks: it. I love it. Thank you. Um, so again, as you said, uh, CEO and owner of dynamic developments, training, leadership, uh, we do every type of training leadership and organizational development that you can need.
So we can actually take you through the whole organizational development side, go through surveys, small group discussion, focus groups, and figure out, Hey, here's the training you [00:40:00] need, or you can come down and say, we need leadership class. We need an effective communication class. We have that. And we customize everything.
Cause I'm not one who just take it off the shelf and give it to you. We want to get to know you and make it worth it for you. The last thing I'll say, I did write a book. Uh, everything we talked about is in here. It's called the communicators playbook, uh, is an Amazon bestseller, and you can find it on Amazon in heart or a paperback copy and, uh, ebook.
And I'm currently working on the audible version as well.
Leighann Lovely: That's amazing. So, um, if you want to reach out to Brian or his company, how would you go about doing that? Yeah.
Brian Hendricks: So the easiest way is going to be www. dynamicdevelopments. net. That's our website. Uh, you can also connect with me on Instagram, uh, develop.
W Brian develop with Brian, uh, I'm on there, uh, or just send me an email. And I think you put this in the show notes. Um, my direct email is just BrianHendricks@ dynamicdevelopments.net. So trying to be as, as open to any type [00:41:00] of communication as possible.
Leighann Lovely: And that'll all be in the show notes, Brian, I really appreciate you coming on and talking with me today.
It's been an amazing conversation. Yes.
Brian Hendricks: Thank you for having me, Leanne. I appreciate it.
 

Joy-inducing Work That Supports Your Business?!

Join us in another episode of Love Your Sales Podcast with guest Josh Wilson to unravel the puzzle of missed sales opportunities. Discover how to engage in joy-inducing work that directly supports your business model and enhances revenue. Josh shares insights on how to utilize podcasts as a tool to connect with referral partners and potential clients. Gain wisdom from Josh's vast experience as a seasoned podcast host. Don't miss this illuminating conversation that explores the intersections between media, mission, and margin.
Contact Josh-
LinkedIn Josh - https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshuabrucewilson/
LinkedIn podcast - https://www.linkedin.com/company/podcasthostarmy/  
Podcast - https://www.podcasthostarmy.com/
 
Special Thank you to our Sponsor Genhead – www.genhead.com
 
Robb Conlon – Intro and outro – Westport Studio - https://www.westportstudiosllc.com/
 
The Brave Ones – Instrumental Version Song by Jan Sanejko - https://artlist.io/royalty-free-music/song/the-brave-ones/119489
 
Leighann Lovely: Welcome to another episode of love your sales. I am joined by Josh Wilson today. Josh is an accomplished podcast host renowned for his contribution to develop top tier media brands. He has skillfully produced more than 2000 interviews featuring guests, including interviewers, CEOs, and globally recognized thought leaders.
His extensive experience in media has not only honed his expertise, but also cultivated expansive network and [00:02:00] solidified robust alliance in the business world. Josh serves as a capital market advisor and member of the IPO team at Green Tree Financial Group, Incorporated.
Beyond his professional achievement, Josh is deeply committed to philanthropy efforts. He serves as an advisor and partner to various Christian ministries with a focus on initiatives supporting men, prison ministries, and local fire service chaplains. Josh, I'm extremely excited to have you join me today.
Welcome.
Josh Wilson: It's good to be here. You have the coolest headset ever, and I've been in a lot of podcasts. You get the best headset award by far.
Leighann Lovely: I get a lot of compliments on my pink, my, my pink headset here. I, um, I purposely picked it out cause it's, you know, really on brand with my purple, my pinks, my, so
Josh Wilson: thank you.
You pull it off. Great man. Good job. So [00:03:00] thanks for having me. This
Leighann Lovely: is really cool. Yeah. I'm, I'm really excited to, to have you join me. Um, I was recently on your new podcast, right? It's fairly new. Yeah. The five minute one. Uh huh. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, I, I'm just excited to have you join me and talk to me about, well, I mean, you've You have started assisted in starting podcasts and you're, um, you're very accomplished in your own rights and well, so let's, let's dive in and talk a little bit about, you know, how you have.
gotten to where you are, um, in, in doing what you do.
Josh Wilson: If you ask my wife, what do I do? She has no clue. Uh, and it took me a long time myself to figure out, you know, who is Josh and what does he do? I have a background ranging from venture capital, private equity, uh, real estate brokerage, sold shoes, wrestled [00:04:00] alligators, uh, fought fires, delivered babies, did all sorts of stuff.
My whole career. Uh, one of my mentors has called it a dumpster fire. So, uh, when you say, how have you gotten here? Man, a lot of failures running through brick walls and trying to figure out who I am and how do I show up for this world? Um, in the world of podcasting, it started, uh, maybe eight years ago. I started a podcast show when I was building a technology company.
There's another add to, uh, It's ridiculous. It is absolutely, I look back and I go, what, what's going on, Josh? Figure yourself out. But, uh, yeah, I started a podcast show and since then we built 20 done 2, 500 interviews now, um, sold the show, help other people now launch, grow, monetize their shows. We focus kind of like on, uh, like a business manager, like Snoop Dogg has a business manager.
Tom Cruise has a business manager. So like we've become the fractional CRO for. [00:05:00] Different talent. And, uh, we're having fun. That's, uh, that's one of the businesses that I really enjoy podcast host army.
Leighann Lovely: That's that is okay. So. When somebody, I mean, that's, oh, that's awesome. It's a business manager for, well, and first, okay.
So you've delivered a baby, you've delivered babies.
Josh Wilson: Lots of them. Yeah.
Leighann Lovely: Well, how does that fit in?
Josh Wilson: Well, I wrestled alligators and then the next career path was, uh, uh, I became a firefighter paramedic. So 911, what's your emergency? There's a baby coming inside. Go catch. And I delivered two of my own children as well.
Leighann Lovely: Wow. Okay. I'm sorry. And you wrestled. And I'm sorry, what career was the wrestling alligators? That
Josh Wilson: was different from delivering babies. I know it's hard to track. It's really hard to track this guy. I got it. I got it. Uh, my job, I was [00:06:00] working with my dad in construction and I was sick of working with dad and it was hot in Florida and I was digging ditches.
So I wanted another job. So I opened up a newspaper back in the day when there was newspapers classified, looked for a job, said entertainers wanted. And I'm like, That sounds fun. I show up and they're like, how do you feel about animals? I'm like, I've got a dog. They're like, well, how do you feel about snakes and reptiles and bats and, you know, alligators?
I'm like, let's do it. So shout out to the guy who trained me. Nine finger, Jesse taught me how to wrestle alligators. So there you go.
Leighann Lovely: I suppose if you can wrestle alligators, you should, you know, the next leap would be, yeah, you can deliver a baby. I mean, come on now.
Josh Wilson: Both very, um, squiggly. They both try to get away.
That's the only time I've ever compared an alligator wrestling to wrangling a baby, but it's hard to keep hold of them sometimes. Right.
Leighann Lovely: [00:07:00] Right. Okay. And now, now you are the. Project manager, the, what did you call yourself? The R chief
Josh Wilson: revenue officer.
Leighann Lovely: So revenue officer.
Josh Wilson: Okay. We work with different groups to help them bring in more money, especially like the media side of the world, like people who have a business and then they built a media brand, but they don't understand how media works.
So their business is over here. Their media is over there here, and they have a hard time connecting the two. They know they need a podcast. They know they need a YouTube. They just don't know how to make those things make money. That's where we'd step in and we kind of help bridge the gap there and we turn it into a machine for them, a funnel for them.
And then we take, uh, you know, we get paid up front and we take portions of the upside and we, we, we look at it as a partnership. So that's how we, that's how
Leighann Lovely: we build it. So. I come to you, I say, where do I begin, Josh? [00:08:00] How do I start? And I'm going to guess that not only is there the marketing aspect, there's the sales hat that has to go on.
Obviously, there's got to be good content to begin with. I mean, if you've got crappy content that nobody wants to listen to, or it's, you're kind of dead in the water to begin with. But where do we, where do we
Josh Wilson: begin? Yeah, that's a, that's such a great question, Liam. It has to start with the business, right?
A lot of times people will have a business and then they do some media that has no direct correlation to the actual business. So what it. What happens over time is it just becomes a distraction. And that's why you'll see a lot of pod fade where they'll start a podcast and then they'll fade out. Or if, if a business owner doesn't see a direct connection between their, their media and money or margin, right?
They're going to stop. They have to stop as a business owner. We have too much crap going on in our life. To add something to [00:09:00] it. So if it's not supporting it, it's got to go. So the first thing that has to happen is inside the business and sometimes we'll do a consultive round before we jump into a partnership.
The business has to have systems and process and have the ability to scale and grow new partnerships, right? So a lot of times we just met with a group. They're, they're making 80 grand a month in a service based business. They're crushing it. They're, you know, high margins They're doing phenomenal, but they don't have systems and processes in place So if we add and they're all kind of like spinning their wheels like making it work And they're just they're so smart that it just works really well for them.
But if we add another layer of complexity Add media, add a great amount of influx of PR firms and people wanting to be on their show and noise, what will happen is it will just create confusion and then something will have to break. So the first thing that must happen is within the business. Have a [00:10:00] predictable sales model.
Have the ability to grow, have the ability to take on more clients, have the ability to nurture a, a sales funnel, help bring on a guest and walk them through your sales funnel, whether it's your guest, which is a great way to do business development and strategic partnerships, or have something where the audience could kind of connect with, engage in and be a part of your sales funnel as well.
So I think it starts with the business. A lot of people would be like, yeah, I could start a podcast for you. 2, 500 a month. And yes, it'd be a great show and I bet it would be a blast. But at some point you're going to have to go, is this really business or is it an expensive hobby? And that's kind of what we look at.
Leighann Lovely: And I'm going to guess that the majority of podcasts out there are just their expensive hobbies.
Josh Wilson: Yeah, well, I've created 20 of these things and I've shut down 17 of them and I've also helped start a lot of other shows for other people. And then I've seen things that have taken off and things that [00:11:00] have failed.
So I've been exposed to a lot of successes and failures in the world of podcasts such like that. So, yeah, what, what you're saying is, is so accurate, like, is it an expensive hobby or does it really support the business? And if we take an honest look at it, we go, I really enjoy doing it, but I'd like to find that better connection point.
We got to do some work and that's, it's okay. It's also okay to. You know, take one of your shows out back and put it down if it's not working and stand up a new show with a new brand, with a new focus, it's okay to restart, re pivot, re change, tell your past guests, we started a new show. Would you like to be on this one?
It's okay.
Leighann Lovely: Well, and it's, and that's really funny. That's how you and I originally met. I, I came on and I was listening to one of your, I don't know what it was. Uh, Kind of like a mini webinar, a little series that you did and I, you know, that ended up doing a one on one or a one, [00:12:00] one to two, whatever it's called.
And it was at that point recommended to me that I end a podcast and I'm like, well, what it was, was an expensive hobby and yes, and, and I did some point now ended that because it was. It wasn't in, it wasn't in line, right? Because to, to your point, if it's not, if it's not in brand or doesn't make sense for a business, for what you're trying, the goal, the, the sale you're trying to make at the end of the day.
What is it for?
Josh Wilson: Yeah. Why are we doing what we're doing?
Leighann Lovely: Correct. Why are you doing what you're doing? If, if it's truly just a hobby, if you just want to be out there, you just want to have fun. Great. Then, then do it. Yeah. But ultimately to your point, what is the [00:13:00] goal? Is it to monetize? Is it to make money on the actual content?
Is it to flip audience members into? Potential clients. Is it to flip the guests into, by the way, I have a sales pitch for you. If you would like to know, I'm just
Josh Wilson: kidding. I love it. I love it. I love it. Yeah. It's helped me something. I, you know, I love to buy things. So like
Leighann Lovely: totally by you've got some extra cash.
I don't know. I got a really awesome pen here. It'll cost you 50, 000. Um, okay. Anyways, the point being, um, what is the point? Thanks. Of what you're creating if at the end of the day, there's not a, a pull, a offer, a lead of some kind coming in is that that's what you're saying. So how do you guide your clients to figure out what that is?[00:14:00]
Josh Wilson: You know, uh, love is spelled T I N E. And a lot of times it's just, we, we connect and spend a little bit of time together. And, uh, usually, and this happened even with you and I in, in some of the things in the past is because I've had so many failed starts, I can see, uh, I could see hurdles maybe a little bit sooner than other people.
So, you know, some questions, and a lot of times the questions are this. Do you enjoy it? And, and sometimes I've, I've had people go, man, I actually hate doing this, or there's a portion of the thing. Like one of the guys I'm, I'm coaching. He's like, man, I love podcasting. I love meeting people. I hate the post production.
I hate the, the editing on the front end. And I, and he told me all the things he hated. And I said, I give you permission. To just erase all of those right now, use AI for this piece of it and stop doing those other things. He goes, do you think the people would care? It doesn't matter. It's like, they'll get used to it or [00:15:00] you'll find your true fans.
So he stopped doing all the parts of podcasting that he hated. And now he's able to do two to three more per day because he got rid of all the fluff of it. And now he's enjoying it. So a lot of times it's like, what do you enjoy? What produces results? And it's like, Giving permission to go, I could do something that I like doing in business.
Yeah. Why not have fun? If you're going to spend the majority of your life doing it. Love your sales. You love sales. I knew that from the minute I met you, I was like, why in the world are we doing other stuff? You love sales and you're cranking it. Now you're crushing
Leighann Lovely: it. If I could get rid of the paperwork and just go and sell and have somebody else write all the contracts and do all of the other, that's what it now.
Now, one day I'll wave that magic wand and I'll have somebody just follow me around and be like, okay, write that down for me. Okay, write that down. No, probably not that. But yeah, but that's that. And, and I [00:16:00] believe that we would all excel greatly if we could just simply work in our, in our working genius.
And, and that's, that's some pulling that from who is the author. Yes. Yes. There we go. And our, if we stayed in our working geniuses and we just did, you know, that those exact things that we love to do, we would remain in those, in those points, we would remain in those, you know, those heightened, you know, spots of, of genius.
Um, and, and I love, I love to be. having these conversations. I wouldn't do it if I didn't love to have these conversations. Majority of the people who love to have the conversations are not the people who are going to say, gee, I love to do the editing and the production of it. Now, there's people on the back end I could hire and say, Hey, could you just do all of the post production for me?
Um, you know, as I jumped on, I was reading, you know, your bio [00:17:00] going, Oh, sorry, I didn't get a chance to read. I'm not exactly the best planner when it comes to me either getting the, I'm usually just kind of a, Hey, let's have the conversation.
Josh Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When, so I love the book. Such a great book. It's paralleled in, in a book, uh, good to great where he talks about, so in working genius is find your joy in work and you're probably going to excel at it and partner with people who are good at the other stuff in a good to great, find something that is the groundhog principle, hedgehog principle, hedgehog, yeah.
Things that you love doing you're good at and there's an economic driver and that's kind of like your purpose like your joy So why not if you're good, especially for founders out there or for high driver salespeople? Why not focus on the areas of their job that they're really good at that moves the needle?
And then either outsource or use technology to do the other [00:18:00] portions of it when you can. Sometimes you just got to grunt through because you don't have enough money to pay for fill in the blank. And I've been there a thousand times, right? So, but that, that is the, uh, I think that's a path of happiness is kind of doing what you need to do and love to do.
They could combine and it works out perfect.
Leighann Lovely: Well stated. And it's funny because I read good to great a very, very long time ago. And so I actually am literally. Before I, I was driving on my way, you know, back to my office and I've been, um, listening to good to great and they just went through the hedgehog and the circles, right?
So you're referencing a, like, I literally just like heard that piece being like, cause it's been such a long time since I read that book and I was like, I really should read it again. So I'm actually on audio books since I'm in the car and anyways, so that's a, that's a Brilliant reference because if, if, if you find your [00:19:00] perfect alignment of what you're extremely good at, that meets what the economic need is in your business, and then your working genius matches that and you love to do it.
The only way is up. I mean, obviously you have to have the discipline, you have to have the structure, you have to have all of that stuff in line, but I mean, theoretically, it should all line up, and I'm making a hand motion for those of you who are listening, but
Josh Wilson: they felt what you were saying, they knew, they could feel it.
They could feel the passion. And, and talking about sales, I'll tell you, if you're doing what you love doing and you're passionate about and you have a high conviction for it, your conversion rate's going to be higher. So you can really be terrible at sales. But if you're passionate about something you have a high conviction of it people could see that you're having fun and you're enjoying it [00:20:00] You're more likely to have influence over people because they're gonna feel The intent of what you're trying to do and you might screw up with your typing or your invoice or your whatever I'll tell you like when you're in that joy That's magnetic.
And I think that's what sales
Leighann Lovely: is about. Absolutely. I totally agree. And early on in sales and Josh, if you disagree, but I was taught that if you, if you just recently were coming off a high of selling that you should hit the phones immediately. Like get back out there. Don't, don't waste time, you know, going out and celebrating and stepping away and taking that.
No, right now is the time go and try to get as many people on the phone as you can because they are going to hear the enthusiasm, the happiness, the joy that you just experienced in your voice. If you're in a really good mood, if you're in a low, And you're just like, I have to get a sale. I [00:21:00] absolutely, and you're trying to force it.
That is when everybody's going to go, no, not interested. Because to your point, people can tell. And I learned somebody's like, put a mirror on your desk, stare into that mirror and smile. Then pick up the phone and call and I'm like you're straight like I'm not gonna do that. Why would I do? Why do I want to stare at myself?
Because if you're smiling People can tell the difference in your voice versus a smile and a frown They just you react you talk different you sound different versus the fluctuation in your voice people who are naturally Love people and naturally enjoy what they do have passion for it. They just They come across different.
They're magnetic.
Josh Wilson: So cool. So powerful. So true. Um, [00:22:00] yeah. Guide me. What, what, what other thoughts do you have on in your own world of, of your joy? Where do you find your joy? I know this is your show and I'm a podcast host too, but like I could tell like you absolutely love connecting with people and helping solve problems.
Leighann Lovely: Is that right? Oh yeah. Oh God. That's that. I, I, if I could just sit and do that all day, um, and just talk with people about what's going on in their world, that's all I would do. I, I would, and, and then work, you know, work, systematically work through how to solve those problems. Um, and then get on the phone and, and be like, okay, let's, let's do this together.
Let's sell together. Let's figure out the right word track. Let's figure out what's making people respond positively. You know, in a positive way versus people going, yeah, not interested and hang up. Um, you know, I'm not as much on the, you know, the marketing. [00:23:00] I don't like marketing. Um, you know, I, I'm not a pretty butterfly.
I'm a hardcore. Like, let's talk to people, you know, I, and people say like, Oh, cold calling is dead. And I'm like, no, no, it's not like, it's not the way that you're going to actually grab somebody's attention is to have a conversation. So I love to be out networking. It's Transcribed by https: otter. ai You know, it's, I love to be in conversation with people and stop taking control of the show.
You're not allowed to do that. You're just so
Josh Wilson: good. I like this. Like I could feel it in you. That's so cool, man. I love seeing that happen with, with my friends. So yeah, I'm sorry. Back back to you.
Leighann Lovely: So, so how did you, you know, when you help somebody start growing those shows and they start seeing like. Okay, this is, this is starting to, you know, how do you help them pinpoint those sweet spots on [00:24:00] what they're looking to do?
Do they come to you with, this is what I want to do? Are you really helping them take those steps through, this is how we're, We want to position ourselves. This is you know, what is your sweet spot?
Josh Wilson: Yeah, so I like it when someone has had a good amount of failures Especially in the world of media or you know, they built a show they've tried it they know that they've got to do it again, but they've got some experience and they've gone through the fact of Launching growing and shutting down.
So they're much more apt to go. I don't want to You know, uh, go through the pain of that again, right? So when they've already reached kind of the end or they've spent thousands and thousands of dollars of trying to, you know, have a business success through their, you know, media and it didn't work like they thought or promised, that's when they come and they're open to other ideas.
So kind of my sweet spot is a little bit more of a seasoned, I I've helped launch a bunch [00:25:00] of different shows. And there's an art to it. And there's some really great people at that. Like LZ, uh, with podcast. Now he's like just the master of launch. Like he is so good at that and strategies. He's really sharp.
Uh, and then there's like, for me, my, my sweet spot is we've got things moving. We've stalled out and we don't know why, what's going on. And a lot of times for me. And this is going to be controversial. I feel like people are looking at the wrong numbers. When you measure the wrong thing, you're going to get the wrong results.
Right? So people are looking at their numbers of like, Oh, how many views did I get? Or how many downloads or how fill in the blank or how many new followers did I get? And I go, did any of your followers ever reach out to you and pay your light bill? Well, no, then why are we measuring that as a strong business unit?
You could buy followers, right? Like you can buy those kinds of things. And that doesn't, that's [00:26:00] not going to show that, you know, success or hit your bottom line. A lot of times there's a major disconnect between. who they're trying to like sell to and who they're marketing to. So if you're trying to tickle the ears of people and get them to follow you and such like that, it might be a much different message to get a client.
So which one would you choose? So a lot of times I just have to really do an ego check with myself and go on, am I doing this because I want to be TikTok famous or am I doing this because I want to make money and buy diapers for my kids, right? So. That's an ego thing. I mean, a lot of marketing companies will look at and, you know, those kind of vanity metrics that I don't think pay light bills.
And I'm sorry to step on toes here, but like I had a show that was top of charts, you know, like famous, like people were like, send me pictures of myself next to famous people. And I'm like, Whoa, I can't afford 20 a month to pay for the [00:27:00] hosting of this. And I was like, that's when it changed for me is, is I, you cannot depend on those numbers to pay your bills.
So after that, I just said, I'm doing this backwards
Leighann Lovely: and it's been working. Interesting. And you, and you make an extremely valid point because you know, we, somebody who's new, somebody even like me, I'll, I'll pull up my stats and be like, Oh my God, I got a new follower today. To your point, is that a returning somebody who is actually listening and getting information and then reaching out saying, Hey, I would like to talk to you about your actual services, not just the fluff that you're putting out into the world.
Yeah. But so what matrix, matrix actually matter?
Josh Wilson: Yeah. It's like the, the three legs of [00:28:00] a successful podcast. In my opinion, based on my experience of doing this 2, 500 times one, the podcast has to support the business model. If it doesn't support the business model, separate it from that. And then don't don't care about the measurements.
But if you're going, I'm doing this as a part of my business, and I'm dedicating business time, money and other resources, team resources to this. Does this support the business? You've got to be able to clearly attach those two to can your podcast or media thrive with just you and your guests in your strategic partners.
A lot of times people go, I'm going to build this. I'm going to get it to monetize them on YouTube by having X amount of followers. At that point, I'll start selling sponsorships and ads. And that thing is so hard to chase because you're competing with people with big budget So the second one is can it survive with you your guests and your [00:29:00] strategic network your your internal?
like circle of people And then third, if you could figure that out and you have a systematic approach and you have a good proven sales funnel, then you start focusing on engaging the audience and pulling them in, right? That is the icing on the cake is when the audience, I got a text message one day I was doing a podcast and it was a 31 million text message.
Hey, I just heard your show. I'm looking to do a deal. We're looking for this. 31 million price tag on it, right? So that is very, very, very, very rare for an audience member to reach out and do something. Now I give out my phone number. I'm like, and here's my cell phone number. Text me if you have one of these kinds of deals, but that's very rare, right?
So supports business model. It could grow and thrive with just you and your guests and your internal like community. And then third is if you can figure out the scaled business model, the [00:30:00] sales model to bring in the audience, that's the icing on the cake. But other than that, you could, you could survive with the first two and do extremely well for yourself.
Leighann Lovely: And it's extremely difficult to actually monetize. It's just on YouTube alone. I mean, you have to have millions and millions and millions of views on your short views, your views. I mean, you have to, you really have to take off in order to monetize on YouTube.
Josh Wilson: I have very little experience in that. I've made money on YouTube back in the day.
I had a few things that, like, did okay, but it was like pennies. Right. So, like, I don't even pay attention to it now.
Leighann Lovely: Right. I, right. And I, initially I was like, oh, I wonder if, how you can make money and, and, and you look into it and you're like, yeah, there's no way there's, there's, I would have to spend all of my time.
Just doing that, and that is not worth my time on, well, basically banking [00:31:00] all of my time to try to do, I need to actually make money
Josh Wilson: now.
Leighann Lovely: Me too. Yeah, sure. So I'm not going to, I'm not going to pay attention to that, to actually engage and reach the audience that could potentially become a client right now is, is much more.
The thing that makes sense as long as everything else makes sense that you just listed. Is it in line with your business? Are you getting the right message out there? All of the, you know, is it not absorbing too much time of said person being in their business? All of those things.
Josh Wilson: Okay. Here's an example. I think, I think it would be helpful to have an example. Let's say I am a realtor in my job. It's to sell homes in Florida, in central Florida, [00:32:00] more specifically in Ocala. Let's just say that's the example here. And I'm like, I should start a podcast, right? Why in the world would I spend time interviewing people in all these other places?
Unless I have a feeling that they're going to move to Ocala. So like, spinning a wheel on LinkedIn and hitting, you know, Hey, would you like to be on my podcast show about commercial or about real estate interviewing them? And then the likelihood of them doing a deal. No Cal is so small. If I'm doing such a local show, I'm going to go to every bank.
I'm going to interview all the. I'm going to interview all the home inspection people. I'm going to interview landscapers and all the people around home services. And I'm going to say, Hey, if you're buying a home in here in Ocala, you should check out this lawn service. And I'd create a referral relationship with them.
They're great at what they do. Here's what they do. They work all our high end things. I would interview homeowners associations, real estate attorneys, [00:33:00] all the people in my immediate market. That are going to drive and send business to me and I'm going to send business to them. So that makes it right. So I can control my sales and marketing engine.
So I think that a lot of times people go, Oh, that's how it connects to your business model. Right. I'm out there meeting with my referral partners and you know, title agencies and insurance people and everybody.
Leighann Lovely: And then once you become big, they become your sponsors and there you go. I would do it. Right.
That's awesome. That's, that's a brilliant, I mean, see, and you don't think about that because when you get so caught up in, well, I want to talk to, I'm a real estate agent. I should talk to the people who are like minded or are going to, you know, that makes sense to what the topics that I'm talking about, well, your top, there are so [00:34:00] many topics that are surrounding that are orbiting.
Your topic that could very well bring value to your industry, your buyers, your, I mean, if I'm a home owner looking to buy in that area, I've never lived in that area. That is a extremely valuable thing. And excuse me. And if I'm doing research in that area and I stumble or I'm, I find the podcast. That's beautiful research to be able to easily just listen to, especially if they're 15 minutes long.
Oh, great. Here's a perfect mortgage company. That's maybe I'll become a real estate agent and start that podcast.
Josh Wilson: You'd be great at that too. For sure. You,
Leighann Lovely: you, you're kind of a suck up. I feel like you're just, you know, just. Suck it up to me here. Josh.
Josh Wilson: Well, it's your show. That's what we're supposed to do is boost up the host [00:35:00] Man, you're awesome at everything now but you're good at sales and you're good at people now if you said I want to be an accountant I'd probably say don't be an accountant or a bookkeeper or One of those other like high detail hype plan and kind of thing.
So yeah, you got it.
Leighann Lovely: No, no No, my accountant probably hates me. I just submitted all of my stuff for my books. She's probably gonna email me back Hey, you're missing half the stuff Like yep, probably
Josh Wilson: Yeah.
Leighann Lovely: For sure. Yeah. Sure. Well, we are, we're coming to that point. So you get to do your 32nd shameless pitch on whatever you like.
So go at it, Josh.
Josh Wilson: Yeah. Thank you for this opportunity for that. Uh, Hey guys, uh, I hope you enjoyed this conversation. Uh, I spent a lot of time focusing with. Uh, on media mission and margin and how they kind of intersect. So if you're, if you're, you know, growing a business and you have maybe a high ticket item, you have something that is scalable, [00:36:00] you have a good product or service that, that has the potential to get, you know, get more sales through media.
I'd love to chat with you. Just take a look at it. It might be something that I can, you know, make a few small tweaks and it, you know, produces, you know, better income and better results for your business. Uh, podcast host army is where you could find us. com. That's where you could find us. Uh, LinkedIn is a good place too.
So you could check up Joshua Bruce Wilson on LinkedIn and just say, Hey, you heard me on her show and, and I'd love to see how I could help.
Leighann Lovely: And we will post all of your contact information in the show notes. So if anybody wants to reach out, you can also find that information there. But Josh, I really appreciated you taking the time to come on and talk with me today.
It's been an absolute honor. Um, really appreciate, you know, that I was on your show. So if you want to check that out, make sure that you go in and check that out as well. But thank you so much. Yeah. My pleasure.
#sales #businessdevelopment #entrepreneur #entrepreneurship #selling #relashionships #customerexperience #podcast #loveyoursales #lastingrelashionships #salescareers #salesmanager #salesdevelopment
 

Data-based Decisions Drive Business Growth

Join the amazing conversation with guest Lynn Corazzi, we dive into the perplexities of sales and understanding business financials. Witness the enthusing conversation about the significance of understanding data analytics to grow your business, with perspectives from sales to financial analysis. Lynn shares his experience on how to better analyze your business through sales and marketing strategies that rely on numbers. Don't miss this exciting talk about using data-based decisions to drive your business growth!
Contact Lynn
Website - https://www.data2profit.net/
LinkedIN - https://www.linkedin.com/in/lynn-corazzi/
Phone - (920) 948-3355
 
Leighann Lovely: Welcome to another episode of Love Your Sales. I'm so excited because today I am joined by Lynn Corazzi. Lynn, owns his own business. He helps leaders fix, know, and grow their businesses by making their data work as hard as they do. With over 20 years of experience as a director and CFO in various industries, Lynn has a proven track record in increasing sales.
Margins and [00:02:00] efficiencies through data driven strategies and solutions. His mission is to have a lot of fun with you as you turn data into the most valuable asset. Outside of work, he also has fun with a brand new grandson, Lynn. Thank you so much for joining me
Lynn Corazzi: today.
I'm so excited to be here. And you know, part of it is you said the words that mean the most to me twice there and the word fun. Because we should have a lot more fun oftentimes than what we're having, particularly when it comes to understanding our numbers, it causes anxiety, and it causes stress and uncertainty and leads to, in the worst case, that whole nasty imposter syndrome that everybody goes through at some point in time.
So my job is to help you get more out of that, and working together we're going to have, because I can't do this in a serious way.
Leighann Lovely: And, and I, yes, money apps as a small business owner. That is absolutely [00:03:00] the number one thing. You know, I talk to clients every day about, Hey, let me take the stress out of the sales aspect of it.
Right. But when it comes to even in my own business, when I'm dealing with the numbers, when I'm dealing with trying to understand what those numbers mean. I, I, it's so far over my head and I, and I go to conferences about let's understand your numbers. And I'm writing all of this information down and I'm going, wait a second, I don't even know where to begin.
And, and they, and they talk constantly about, well, understand what's coming in, understand what's going out. And, and, and the more power or the more information or the more you understand this, the more powerful it is as a business owner. And I'm going, I don't know what I'm doing, man, because you know, if, if understanding it has power, then I have.
I'm, I have no power. I, I'm very
Lynn Corazzi: weak. Okay, the, the, the superpower [00:04:00] that you need to develop is, okay, you look at your numbers, that tells you what? Right. This is what happened. It, it, something causes numbers to be what they are. Right. But the second, what is what caused them? Okay. I see what they are. I need to understand what caused them because then you can get to the really fun start of what do I do about it?
Right. And that's the piece where people make that transition between accounting, which is accounting a ago, actuals finances helped me figure out why it happened. But F is the, for the future. It, which is where your fears, your fortune or your failures are, and we need to look ahead.
Leighann Lovely: And it makes so much sense because, and it's funny, cause I was just having a conversation with somebody yesterday about, you know, market trends and things like that.
And, and coming from the industry that I did in staffing, I was saying to them, I'm like, you know, it, my dad was in real estate and he used to call me and say, what's happening [00:05:00] right now in hiring trends in our, our. Our company slowing down our company speeding up because that was an indicator to him.
What was going to start happening in the real estate industry and really quickly after those two things happened, we would then see what was happening with, you know, the trends in the market, because there are indicators historically throughout, you know, And this is all studies throughout the world.
There's always indicators before we go into a recession, before we come out of a recession. And often I always saw that coming from, you know, a 10 year person who is HR sales in staffing. I always started to see a slowdown at certain indicators of what was going to happen in the market. And that is the same thing.
That, you know, I wanted to talk to you about today because there are indicators, I'm going to assume with numbers, [00:06:00] understanding your numbers, how you can turn that into
information then you can use to know what's happening. In your, in your business and specifically today in sales, right?
Lynn Corazzi: And you know, and, and if there was one line on there over, you know, you've got the out balance sheet, your income statement, this is the two of the big three financial statements. If I could only look at one thing every single day.
And just spend all my time on it, it would be sales because at the end of the day, sales is a, it's, it's relationships, right? It's relationships between these people that are selling for you. They're out there doing four different things, everything, every single day, they're talking to customers and prospects.
And those people are just going to make four different decisions every single day. It doesn't matter whether you're selling airplanes or [00:07:00] paperclips, four things you can do for four different decisions customers are going to make. And, uh, and, and, and every time you create an invoice and all those different line items on the invoice, and you've got your product tables, you have all this data around here, you can tease that out.
It's not easy. There's not a system in the world that I know of that can, that does it, but you can break sales down into how are you really growing? Because now we can take all that customer information and say, okay, what, how do I want to grow? Mm hmm. You say, I once talked to this guy. And Bob told me they were having a great year.
They were up 6%, but next year they needed to be up eight to 10%. Why is that? He says, well, we're going to, we're going to take on some debt to expand the warehouse. So great. What are you going to do differently? Cause we're going to sell more. Well, of course you're going to sell more if you're, if your sales are going to go up, but are you, are you going to hire a new sales rep?
Yeah, probably. I'll, I'll need to do that. [00:08:00] Okay. Are you going to hire the hunter? Or are you going to hire two to go out and get new business? You're going to hire a farmer because your retention isn't as good as it should be with your existing customers. Or do you have a chance to grow ancillary sales with a couple of inside sales reps?
I never thought about it like that before. Well, again, what are your objectives? And what are you trying to do? What, what four things do you want people to go out and do every day? Try to get customers. So it comes to wraps. Wraps is retain the customers. You have acquire new customers. The product penetration is the P that's selling different categories of products to, you know, to the same customers.
And then their same sales. If you can get someone who's buying 15 this year to buy 20 next year, you know, just in that relationship, like growing that business, those are the only four things you can do retain, acquire, produce, you know, product penetration and same sales. What are the customers deciding to do?
They're going to keep [00:09:00] buying with you as opposed to quitting. They're going to, you know, buy more and they're going to buy a greater variety or they're going to stop.
Leighann Lovely: So when you're working with somebody, you know, talking with somebody, you know, about this, is there, is there something specific that you're looking at in, in financials or it's, it's, if I'm using the wrong.
No, no, financials is the right term. Yes. What are you looking at and what indicators in that would, would help that person make the proper decision on what direction to go? Yeah, there's,
Lynn Corazzi: um, you hate to say it depends. But it really depends because every business is going to be different. But you think about your financial statements, they are the meal that's done.
You know, that's the plate that just came out to you and how you interpret that meal. And what goes into it reflects all the different ingredients that you put in. [00:10:00] So, and all those different ingredients is the data that you have available. So the first thing that I'm going to do working with you is just, first of all, you said it before, how are things trending?
Mm hmm. You know, are things trending up or down? And then when you can peel that back a layer, you know, like, okay, that's the first thing. A lot of people, unfortunately, they look at their income statements as, as a month, you know, as a month thing, or they're going to compare it to last year. Okay. So you're way up this year.
Is that because you're having a really great year this year or because last year just sucked? You know, it's one of the two. You have to go back and look and understand what was going on in both of those time periods. So what's going on with customers today? So you're I had a client who was up and he said like i'm up 15 this year great But we peeled it back a little bit and said, okay Let's look at all your customers because he knew the top 10 and everybody knows their top 10 customers, right?
Yeah, and the biggest one was up the most of all Okay, Paul, you realize that they now represent 70 percent of your [00:11:00] business, up from like 62. So 62 is bad, but now they're becoming a critical mass. So you've got, you've got the, you know, if they were to go away, you've got a huge business risk there. Right.
And oh, by the way, they're the ones who take margin from you because they take sale, you know, they take advertising dollars and they insist on this higher level of discount than you give to anybody else. So yes, you're growing with them, but you're growing less profitably. So we talked about the next, the next bunch, I said, well, what about the other 90 customers you have?
I said, did you notice that these two way down and like 60 and 80 were really, really growing? I didn't even know where, know where are them. So the first thing we're going to do is look at all the customers and then kind of slice the data that, you know, if it's available by, by different product categories.
How many different product categories do you have? You know, how many of those are up? So it's really beginning to dissect. What has actually happened to go back to you? We have the what sales are up. Why? [00:12:00] But then what do we want to do? And, you know, and when you think about cuts, you know, good companies are launching products all the time and we're going to launch this new product.
Well, who's going to sell the product? Cause the sales reps have to be trained on it. Right. Did you change anything in their incentive program to. Reward them for selling the new business, which is going to be harder than the existing business. Do you have trade partners that also need to be incented to grow this?
And, um, you know, so it's really is an analysis of what goes in it and knows we go beyond just dollars and cents. It's how many customers you have, how are they ranking, where are they, you know, do you realize that most of your sales were in the northeastern part of the state, but you know, in Madison, the second largest city, you know, sales are flat there.
So it's just doing that extra looking to help explain the, you know, you know, we had to what, you [00:13:00] know, the so what is how did this happen? So we can, then we can decide what's next. Does that make sense?
Leighann Lovely: Absolutely. And you know, when you said here's a client that holds 75 percent of you know, your business, that's even I know that that's wildly scary.
You know, that's one of the first things that as, you know, as a salesperson coming in, you never, you never,
I was always taught it is way better to have 10 small clients that build up than one massive client because that one massive client goes away.
Lynn Corazzi: Oh, I've, I've made that deci that mistake in my own business. You know, like, hey, because you know, hey, I got this really big client and now they, you know, okay.
When the gig came to an end, I had ignored a lot of the other ones. And, you know, that early business owners', owner's mistakes. [00:14:00] But I talked to another prospect at the time and he never came on, but, um, I think he got a little miff when, you know, he said, yes, I got this really big client that he won this bid for.
I said, that's great. You've now grown your business by 50 percent with one customer. What did you give away? How big of a discount did you have to have? Are you going to be able to serve the existing customers and what's going to happen when the contract's up in two years?
Leighann Lovely: Absolutely. And that's, and this goes back to something that has been drilled into me by, you know, a great mentor of mine early on in my career.
If they buy on price, they'll leave on price, meaning if you're giving them discount after discount after discount to bring them on board. and they are a very large client, they will leave you on price. So even if they are a number one, you know, client of yours, but you're continuing to offer them heavy discounts, you're right.
Your margins are going down. Your margins are going down. [00:15:00] They're a very large client that's putting an undue amount of risk on your business because now what say they even even if they're just 50 percent of your business, but they're at a much smaller margin, you're making less on them. Um, and they're, they're owning 50 percent of your business, well, not owning, but you know what I mean?
Yeah. Sure. They're, you know, paying for 50. That, that's a, that's a really large risk, huge risk and a lot, there are salespeople out there who just are farmers. Oh, okay. Now I've, I've met a certain threshold. They, they slow down.
Lynn Corazzi: Yeah. Oh, cause I'm comfortable living at, you know, with this much income and why am I going to bust my butt to make, you know, another 20 percent more, right?
It is amazing, but it happens.
Leighann Lovely: And um, And to your point, another thing that you brought up bringing on new product line. incentivizing those salespeople. How do you incentivize [00:16:00] those salespeople? Understanding your numbers so that you are offering an additional incentive to, here's a new product. Hey, this'll, you know, for the first Year, you'll get X amount for bringing this to market or, and that's not even something that I thought of and I'm living and breathing sales, but that is definitely an attractive thing for a sales.
Hey, I can get an additional two points above and beyond what I'm currently making. If I sell this or, you know, bring this to market quicker or whatever that might be, that's attractive. Yeah. Salespeople are money driven. Yeah, and
Lynn Corazzi: it's, and it's interesting because, you know, we can talk all day about what sales people do, but then the customers, I worked with another firm, they were a manufacturer's rep.
And that they would, they would quote all these different, all these different jobs, right. And, you know, for the building services industry. And, you know, we, we started, they had a new [00:17:00] ERP system, tracked all their quotes. So the switch sales reps did it. How did they move through the company? Where did they go to?
And then we took all that same information from the customer side. And then you can kind of like imagine this conversation with used to be, Hey, We appreciate your business. We do a million dollars with you. Thank you so much. Yeah, we'll be back again next year too. We love your business, but you realize we provided 400 quotes to you and we want about a hundred of them, but you have 17 people, you know, about three of those people accounted for almost 80 percent of them.
We love the fact that we're doing, getting a lot of business from those three, but what can we do different to bring those other 14 people on board? Right. And now you're, now you're, you're telling your customer about the behavior of their decision makers and you understand their business with you better [00:18:00] than, than, than probably they do.
Right. Cause it, again, it just allows a very different type of conversation for the president of one organization to have to go talk to the president of another organization. Interesting. So
Leighann Lovely: that was very cool. Okay. Okay. So the ERP system tracked. Uh, and let me make sure I follow this, the ERP, obviously, you know, ERP systems are meant to do that.
Every quote that went out. So the manufacturer's rep company was quoting their product. They had 14 reps, but only really three of them were mainly doing those quotes. They accounted for.
Lynn Corazzi: Sorry. I, I, I probably moved too quickly from one to the other. The, the, my, my client, the company, they were selling to, to these companies that were, that were building buildings.
Okay. Okay. And they had 17 decision makers of which [00:19:00] we were only getting the business from three of them. Oh, so, you know, so, so now the building services company who was building these buildings, you know, can go to and say, Hey, why did three of your people love our products? Right. But the other ones don't.
What can we do? Can we provide more training to them? Can we bring them in for a tour and, you know, so they, you know, or were they selling systems versus individual parts, but you can have a whole rich conversation built around data that's there. Right. And this is where making your data work as hard as you do, because every sales rep knows what they believe, but are they going to go in and very few of them I found actually go in and analyze their own business.
Leighann Lovely: Very few salespeople spend any time analyzing anything. Oh, cause, cause anything
Lynn Corazzi: they don't want to do, they want to get out and sell. They don't want to talk. They don't want to look at a computer all the time, but that's why geeks like me kind of. [00:20:00] Don't mind doing this kind of stuff.
Leighann Lovely: We know, I love geeks like you who could actually sit down and go, here's what the, here's what this means.
Like you, and I have a very robust, you know, CR CRM system that can literally say, here's how many quotes you wrote. Cause I do everything through it. I am for being a very high eye for being a very, you know. ADD person, I am also, I do have an analytical side, but I have to be in the mood for it. You know, and half of it ends up on my little sticky notes that I have literally all over my desk.
I mean, I, I have. Like 30 of them. And then when I'm finally like in that headspace, I can go, okay, now I'm ready to enter all of this information in I, I can now like do a real quick analysis. How many proposals did I write? How many of them were, you know, are in a pending state? How many blah, blah, blah. So I, [00:21:00] I am capable of getting, do I always know what it means?
Yes. That's,
Lynn Corazzi: that's the thing. Well, and then, and this is where, you know, anybody can hire a big data scientist to go do and do all this stuff. And the question is, you know, what is the real information relevant to that business versus a lot of very, very interesting trivia. And that's where the experience that I've had in working with this, uh, you know, really comes into.
Okay, yes, I learned financial analysis from Procter and Gamble, and I worked for 10 years with the Grande Cheese Company, both as a finance person, as a sales, you know, as a sales operations analyst for all practical purposes, and what we did there was we built a system over, it took a while, it was an integrated CRM system and data system built around some proprietary work processes, but we boiled sales and marketing strategies down to six to eight different numbers.
The same [00:22:00] six to eight numbers went into our own sales reps compensation system. It also were built into our distributor trade programs. So now you have the entire supply chain from the, from the company making the product to the people selling it down to the very last mile, all making money on the six, same six numbers.
And in, in a period of highest prices, we took our average growth rate from a point and a half to maybe 3 percent to over 7%. For three years straight. It's just the alignment around data and information that was easily accessible, perfectly clear. It was always current. And by gosh, we jumped through hoops to make sure that it was correct.
It was that four C's diamond quality data. Right. And everybody believed it.
Leighann Lovely: And that's, so, see, I, and, and I, I started, and here's just a background on me, I, I originally started going to school for, for, for accounting. And I realized I have a [00:23:00] disorder called mixed dominance disorder. It's a form of dyslexia.
So really quickly when I, my first accounting class ever, I realized, wow, I can't do this. I flip numbers around and I don't even know I do it. I do it. Every time they ask me for my husband's phone number somewhere, I actually have to show it to him and go, is this the number I gave you? Because there, even when I'm reading it sometimes, I will, I will flip numbers around.
I've given, I've given my address out to people incorrectly because I, when I'm, if I'm reading, it was when I first moved in, now I've memorized it, obviously. Um, but I flip numbers around. I write numbers in reverse sometimes. Um, it's like I said, it's a form of dyslexia that I, I know I have, I have to relearn my right and left every day.
Anyways, the point being, so I, I do have an analytical side and I remember, um, my, my cousin got this puzzle. It's, it was a puzzle, um, that can be put together [00:24:00] in, there were squares and it had heads and tails on it. And I remember I said, I bet you. I said to my family, I'm like, I bet you that I can sit down and solve that puzzle.
It had nine pieces. In less than 10 minutes and they're like, no, it says on here that it, you know, can take some people, you know, years to do that, you know, blah, blah. Some people can't even solve the puzzle. And I said, I bet you in a mathematical equation, I can sit down and solve that in 10 minutes. And what I did was I counted the number of heads and tails that were on this and it had colors and everything else and figured out which piece had to be the centerpiece.
Okay. Because each, there was only one that could be a centerpiece. And once you identify which one had to be the centerpiece, it made it really simple to put it together. And that was it. All I did was through a mathematical equation [00:25:00] of counting the number of heads and tails on each one of them, eliminating which one could not be the centerpiece.
I figured it out through, like I said, a mathematical equation and that right there, the point of this is that numbers and math. And when you, when I was in high school, they, Oh, you're going to use math one day. Now, I'm not saying that that was used for business, but it's one of the most powerful tools that people underutilize on a regular basis.
I do in my business all the time. But I remind my clients all the time, if you're taking a new product out to market, if you're a lot, especially as a small business, especially as launching a new business, it takes a minimum, a minimum, just as a new salesperson at a new company to get your name out there and for people to start recognizing your name, 12 to 16 [00:26:00] touches.
Email, social, phone call, you know, leaving a message, text message, if that's the type of communication that you use. For them to start recognizing your name enough for them to actually pick up the phone or respond to you in an email or feel comfortable enough to do that. So if you figure 12 to 16 touch points, that is a ridiculous amount of communication, but that's, it's a numbers game.
Lynn Corazzi: Yeah, people say that all the time. And, and the question is, which numbers are you going by? Which numbers are really driving your business? You know, you can get caught up on all these 30 different lines on your P& L, but if it really comes down to wages are the biggest item on your there, that's the one we've got to control.
Because it's, you know, how many, how many people do you have? Why do you have that many? What can you do to eliminate that? Or how do you have each one of them may be more productive. [00:27:00] And, you know, there's people that, uh, you know, you asked me, what would we do after looking at this, having the conversation around what really drives your business, how do we monitor and keep the pulse on, on what those key drivers are, and then once you start projecting out a forecast based on assumptions.
Data based assumptions, then you can say, okay, are we right in this? Or, if there is something fundamentally that says this is the absolute minimum amount of wages that we, that we need, okay, okay, and we can't, we can't reduce that anymore, then we have to either say, okay, how do we grow sales even faster, or what other stuff needs to go?
But at the end of the day, you cannot save your, you cannot save yourself into sustain profitability. You need to, you need to have the sales growth.
Leighann Lovely: Yeah. Well, and that's what I preach. Sales is the, you know, the, the lifeblood of any [00:28:00] organization. If you want to continue to either sustain your business or grow your business, because it's, it's what it is the driver.
Lynn Corazzi: Yes. But what would you say, Leanne? Congratulations, you made a million dollars this year. How do you feel about that?
Leighann Lovely: Well, what is my tax ramification
Lynn Corazzi: on that? Okay, simple question. How do you feel about making a million
Leighann Lovely: dollars? I would be thrilled if I made a million dollars in my business. But
Lynn Corazzi: what if you expected that year to make two?
Well, then I would be
Leighann Lovely: devastated.
Lynn Corazzi: Yeah. So the difference between those two emotions is what were your expectations? My God, if you thought, you know, if you thought 500, 000 was beyond the realm. Right. And you make a million. Oh my God, I am so freaking happy. Then it's like, okay, what did I get wrong? That I only made half.
I'd still be happy with a million and I'd love to pay the IRS. My minimum required tax is on million dollars. [00:29:00]
Leighann Lovely: Right. The minimum
Lynn Corazzi: required. Yes. That's a whole separate discussion about numbers and people who know how to use those numbers to save you numbers so that you could put more of them in your
Leighann Lovely: bank.
And I'm pretty sure, Lynn, you have discussions like this, um, all the time in, in, in different forums, correct? You do like, you do training and things on, you know, your numbers and that kind of stuff, correct? Yes. Yeah.
Lynn Corazzi: And like I just started a couple of weeks ago, brand new client and this, this woman's, they have two businesses, you know, two different locations and she wants to know when can she actually get quit her day job?
Can she ever quit her day job given all the, so we're looking at two different businesses. Projecting you know what what could be what could be the value of them over the next five years. We're looking at a couple other business that she's thinking about. And again, we're going to model those [00:30:00] things out again.
Okay, let's start with some some driven assumptions. And then if we take this and roll it all together into this is what income will be coming in from the businesses. Does it cover all the debt? All the personal household expenses plus generate enough savings for for the kids as they get older for them to start putting together the retirement fund.
So really, and she's asking all the same questions. What are these financial statements? Tell me. So we're going to go through what they tell you also tell you what they don't tell you because Yeah. I don't know anybody who can say my accountant told me I made 50, 000 this quarter, but I know it's not in my bank.
So where did it go?
Leighann Lovely: I'm pretty sure I'm supposed to have some money, but I'm, I'm not sure where, what, you know, I, I keep getting these letters from the IRS telling me that I owe them money. So I, you know, they, it just keeps going out [00:31:00] and. Um, just as a premise, was I supposed to do some type of analysis before I quit my day job to see if I was going to be successful?
I missed that part. I just kind of jumped into ownership.
Lynn Corazzi: So some of us just become accidental entrepreneurs, you know, and, uh, and it's, but, but at some point in time, yes, you have to say I'm working this hard. You know, what, which numbers are not working to come back to your point. If I'm only sending out two emails a day and I need 16 per person before they're going to, you know, 16 touches, I, I, do I really want to do this?
And let's face it, the vast majority of people that are working in their careers, they are working for somebody else. So it is the entrepreneurs who are putting everything on the line. But unfortunately, you know, okay, now get back into, you know, not just out of sales, but they do this without a bit financial business [00:32:00] partner who's biased by their side.
And they make the mistake of not, of not really acknowledging they have somebody doing their bookkeeping for them. They don't know what it means. They don't even know if it's right. They don't know if it's good, bad, or indifferent if they get their income statement five days after the end of the month or five weeks after the end of the month, because they don't even know what questions and what expectations to put on somebody.
So, so that when they get those financial statements, let's walk through them and talk about why did this all happen? Not just for the month, but what's happened over the past several months. Are we trending in the right direction with spending, with sales, in variable costs, in fixed costs? And don't give me just 40 lines on a P& L.
The thing I really, really, really, really dislike about QuickBooks, it puts all of your accounts in alphabetical order. But what if you have marketing, and then you have some printing costs, and then you have some other [00:33:00] sales types expenses, and you have a website? You know, you got to add up those fourth rings.
There's a ways to rearrange it, just put all those marketing and sales type expenses together on one line. Then if you want to understand that you have the detail that you can go digging back to, if you have a question about what happened in a particular month, then you can go back and see all the gory detail that rolled into that one number.
And, and again, it's just building that repetition of what do I need to be looking at? How often do I need to be looking at it? At what level do I need to be looking at it? Cause you can spend days looking at something or you can spend an hour looking at something. Let's start with the hour and see what we learn from there.
Then we learn to manage by exception.
Leighann Lovely: This is my rabbit hole. I open up my QuickBooks and I go, Oh no, Oh no. And then all of a sudden it's five hours later and I'm still going, Oh no, no, no, this makes no sense. That is truly [00:34:00] my rabbit hole. When I. When it comes to Haley and I need a quick analysis on what, how our position in the market as you know, a potential from a sales point of view.
what I do, you know, my, my role is as either doing an analysis on, you know, as a potential buyer so that I can give you, you know, you know, analysis on that. Um, all that kind of fun stuff. It, it, I can do that and have that done within an hour. Mm-Hmm, . But if you get me on the financial side, I'm, I'm, I'm in it for 10 hours and I'm still.
Trying to swim to the surface going what?
Lynn Corazzi: Yeah, well, before we were talking earlier about words from Andy Wines, and I remember him saying the presentation I heard him make recently was, okay, you spent all that time doing something. [00:35:00] Were you busy? Were you productive? And if you find yourself, a lot of times being busy with something like this, you're trying to figure it out.
So the question is, who can you talk to, to help you be a little more productive? And that's what, that's part of what I try to do. You know, because I'm not going to do the work for people entirely. Because I want them to understand and have familiarity. They need to recognize what those numbers represent.
What they, you know, again, what they tell them and what they don't tell them. And then what they can do with them. And that comes with practice over time. Only then should you really just begin farming it all out. Yeah. Because you have to have some knowledge about what they are, because think about someone else is doing your business, and, uh, well, yeah, if I put it here one month and there in another month, yeah, the tax guy will figure it out.
Well, you're not the tax person. There's a whole different approach in something from a tax perspective versus an accounting perspective versus a financial analysis perspective.
Leighann Lovely: Yeah. And so just to [00:36:00] kind of sum things up, it, it is wildly important for not only, not only for an independent or for a salesperson working at a company to understand what they're doing on a regular basis and understand their numbers of where they're putting their time.
Um, you know, and, and I preach this to, you know, people of where. Um, you know, what buckets are they putting their time in when it comes to an understanding the numbers, but for a business owner, um, wildly important for them to understand their numbers. So they know where to invest in their organization when it comes to whether or not they are investing in a full time salesperson, whether or not.
So Lynn, I. Um, so much appreciate you coming on today and talking with me about the importance of understanding, um, you know, the data so that you can accelerate your business, um, on the sales side, on the profit and growth side. [00:37:00] Um, if you want to reach out to Lynn, I'm going to give him a moment to let you know how to do that.
But before Lynn, you have your 30 seconds, um, shameless pitch to talk about your business. Um, and then, yeah, give us, um, how we could reach out to you if we're interested in your services. Yeah,
Lynn Corazzi: great. Thank you so much. Uh, this has been a lot of fun, but really helping you understand what happens in your business.
So for those of you who aren't sure that you have a good financial background, a good financial confidence, and that's really what I'm working on is financial confidence, helping you fix, know, and grow fix means let's look at your accounting, make sure that it's correct. know what it means, what it doesn't mean, know what other numbers you ought to bring into your business.
And that's K N O W, not N O, not just N O. Fix, know, and finally grow. And that's where we're actually teaching you how to make decisions, better fact based decisions, driven assumptions, you know, assumptions about how to actually grow your business. And then [00:38:00] finally, you know, after working with me for a little while, I'm very much interested in being a little shark tank, my, my own little shark tank.
I am willing to take positions. I'm helping you put my, I'm putting my money where your mouth is because I'm going to believe in you. So fix, no and grow businesses. It was what I want to do long term. I want to, I want to be helping you. It'd be a long term involved financial partner.
Leighann Lovely: That's amazing. And how, how does somebody reach out to you, Lynn?
Lynn Corazzi: Oh, I've got a website, www data, do data to profit.net. It's not.com.net and it's data the number two profit.net. Or you can reach me by phone (920) 948-3355 or L razzi@datatoprofit.net is my email address.
Leighann Lovely: Awesome. And we're going to have that in the show notes. So if you are interested in reaching out to Lynn, you can find that in the show notes.
Lynn, again, I really appreciate you, um, coming on and educating us on how important your numbers are.
Lynn Corazzi: Well, I hope along the way that you also thought that this wasn't [00:39:00] painless, you know, painful and that we actually did have a little bit of fun because that's my new year's resolution this year is to have more fun.
And, and if I can make this fun for people, then that's going to be part of my, you know, part of my value prop. I mean, we're, we're not going to be stressed out or all this, you know, we will, we will have conversations about them, but along the way, yes, there's going to be fun. We have to laugh about this because it is what we do.
Leighann Lovely: I, I always have fun when I have a conversation with you.
Lynn Corazzi: Thank you.
Special Thank you to our Sponsor Genhead – www.genhead.com
 
Robb Conlon – Intro and outro – Westport Studio - https://www.westportstudiosllc.com/
 
The Brave Ones – Instrumental Version Song by Jan Sanejko - https://artlist.io/royalty-free-music/song/the-brave-ones/119489
 

Being Genuinely Interested can't be Faked

Join Ben Zang and Myself as we discussed the importance of building relationships and listening in sales. We talked about the concept of a one-on-one meeting and how to make it successful by being genuinely interested in the other person and allowing them to talk about themselves. We also touched on the importance of being useful and creating value for others. Overall, our discussion emphasized the power of trust, empathy, and genuine connection in the sales process.
Contact Ben -
LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/benzang6/
E-mail – ben@THBWI.com
 
Leighann Lovely: Welcome to another episode of Love Your Sales. I am joined by Ben Zhang. Ben is a unique problem solver with a two decade career in sales, he has spoken for organizations like Financial Planners Association of Wisconsin and Wisconsin CPA Association. He has given talks on small business networking and sales training.
Ben, I am so excited to have you join me today.
Ben Zang: I'm [00:02:00] super glad to be here. Thanks for having me.
Leighann Lovely: Yeah. So why don't we dive in you and I prior to, um, hitting the record button, talked a little bit about, you know, what we wanted to dive into. And one of those was, , proper way to do a one on one.
And I would love to, you know, talk a little bit about that.
Ben Zang: So I think all salespeople need to do networking because it's always going to come down to relationships. Right. So how do you do that? I spent a lot of time thinking about and intentionally thinking about how to do a one on one. And I don't know if you're familiar with, like, chess clock.
If you push down your side, the other side comes up. Okay. And so when they talk, So I, I look at one on ones like a chess clock, and hopefully, if I've done it right, and there are some exceptions and I'll [00:03:00] talk about it, but hopefully if I've done it right, their chess clock will have moved a lot more than mine, because people are interested in people who are interested in them, so I think it makes a big difference how you're, um, how you present yourself and how you're listening and things like that, and I find if you can get people talking about themselves, And show them that you're actually enthusiastically, uh, invested in their success.
I think they become more invested in yours. And so I have found the best relationships kind of stem from those one on ones where I've done a good job of communicating my investment. And so the chess clock back and forth is something I keep in my brain to, to know if I'm doing the, the yeoman's way of.
Yoman's talking, [00:04:00] like, I'm talking more than they're talking, it's, it's a problem. Unless, of course, they're an introvert, and then they, introverts tend to use others enthusiasm, Um, to kind of ride along, like, they don't want to drive the boat. They just want to be a passenger, and they like the sunshine. So, sometimes that's, that's how it goes, too.
But, you can kind of feel that out within the first five minutes.
Leighann Lovely: That's, that's wildly interesting. And when, when you had mentioned the, the chess clock theory, I was, I was kind of going, I don't get it, but that completely makes sense because it also goes back to, to Dale Carnegie, what, how to make friends and influence people, right?
Um, it's the whole idea that, you know, people inevitably, they want to, they need, want, Uh, to talk [00:05:00] about themselves, they, there are certain things that as a young salesperson coming up, I was taught of use their name because the, the most beautiful word in the world to most people is their own name, right?
And then if you allow, or if you give somebody the opportunity to talk about themselves, they're at the end of the day, typically. And, and again, going back to what you just said, an introvert, this may not hold true, but if you have, if you give them the opportunity to, to talk about themselves, to even vent, often, often I find that when I'm sitting across from somebody, they just want the opportunity to be heard.
Sometimes vent about whatever's going on in their lives, um, or in their, in their business. And if, if they're talking more than you are and you're hearing and listening and then [00:06:00] prompting off of, you know, follow up question, follow up comment to what they are actually saying to you, that person typically walks away going, wow, that was such a great conversation.
And you're like, yeah, it was such a great conversation. And in reality, you know, a true. A salesperson will feel that way as well because they're like, wow, I just, I got some really great information. I either can use this to leverage this relationship in a positive manner and, you know, push, pull it forward or push it forward to something else.
Um, it's, it very similar to, you know, what Dale Carnegie, you know, has very intertwined in his entire book about, you know, about the same thing.
Ben Zang: Yeah, I totally agree. And I think that the thing my wife always says, she's like, you're genuinely interested in [00:07:00] people. And I think one of the biggest gifts you can give somebody is to bear witness to their life.
And sometimes it's, you know, sometimes it's crapshoot what's going on and, and sometimes it's all put together. You know, but I think to bear witness to somebody is, is to, in the greatest sense of the word, I think love. Right. So that kind of outward demonstration of knowing somebody, to feel known is quite the gift.
And so I think in those moments where people walk away and they're like, man, he's such a good guy, or man, he, that was such a great time. You know, um, I think it's because they feel like they were a part of something and they were seen. And I think that's, it's very strong. I think salespeople. Especially because we're big talkers, right?
So we forget that part, you know, we've got our own agendas in our heads. And I [00:08:00] think. If we don't realize the power that that is, I think we, we missed the boat.
Leighann Lovely: Salespeople never talk. What are you talking about? My, my husband and I had a conversation this weekend. He said, um, he goes, well, you know, salespeople are just, they just be ass all the time and I got very offended.
I said, no, no. I said, there may be times where I'm introduced to somebody and, and they're like, Oh, how you doing? It's so great to see you. And I have, I'm a blank, I'm blank. I have no idea. I'm, I'm, I'm in my brain going through my Rolodex of who is this person? Who is this person? Like apparently we know each other and, and I will fake it for a moment.
Until they say something that triggers the memory and I go, Oh, and he goes, well, that's BSing. And I said, no, that for a moment is me, you know, kind of [00:09:00] doing the fluff until it's triggered, you know, to, to that moment in time. And, and he says, well, you know, all salespeople BS. And I said, not the ones who truly.
I said, yes, there's a certain amount of fluff that we, that we throw in because I can't remember every single person until there's that trigger, right? I said, but the true, true salespeople, the servant hearts, and, and I just had this convert conversation with, with, you know, Pat Riley, um, on, on a previous episode, the true salespeople who lead, um, with, with, Um, you know, love, if, if that's the word, who lead with compassion, who, who truly want to help their, either their network or their clients, they do actually care.
And so [00:10:00] sometimes for a moment you're going, Oh God, where, who is this person? And so, yes, maybe it is perceived as, Oh, BSing for a second. But in reality, it's. I need to trigger myself to remember and when I do, I go, Oh, yes, but there are other times where I go, Oh, I'm so sorry. Where did we meet again? But I meet.
Um, Ben, how many people do you meet in a day? I don't
Ben Zang: know, anywhere from 10 to 100, give or take, depending on the day. Right. Right? Right. I also think that moment that you're talking about is trusting. There's a relationship here, I can feel it, I just, my brain can't pick up where it was from. And that, I think it takes a minute sometimes, especially in our worlds.
And I think that if, I mean. The BS, so to speak, that, that other people perceive it. I think it's just because they don't understand [00:11:00] what sales truly is. And I think it's a natural thing. I think even your husband would say there are times he can't remember people he's come across. It's just natural. You know, I think people that don't understand sales as being servants, salespeople are servants, you know, you're serving both your client and your customer and your community.
And I think the best ones. Create a community where everybody wants. I know it's cliche, but I truly,
Leighann Lovely: truly believe it. No, and I love that statement. I absolutely love that statement because I know a community that does just that. I know multiple communities that are all You know, circles that all intertwine of different people who are, you know, doing that, you know, simultaneously within all of [00:12:00] those different communities that, that continuously are giving back and obviously, yes, there is a benefit because from that they are continuously getting referrals doing those one on ones.
And so now I'm going to loop back. You mentioned a little bit about an introvert. I think they're
Ben Zang: differently equipped, like the best, um, best example or the best definition I've heard about an introvert to extrovert, an extrovert needs the interaction to energize and an introvert, it takes energy away.
And so it. If you think about it, taking energy away, and then how can you create energy within those conversations? Um, and sometimes that's about getting them to open up, and sometimes that's just about entertaining them enough that they can just relax. [00:13:00] Because I've seen many an introvert just sit, read a book, unwind, watch a TV program.
And sometimes it's just about sharing, uh, an entertaining antidote that they can turn off and there's no pressure to interact with it, right? This is just a story. When we were kids, we used to listen to a teacher read a book. And so it's giving those kinds of pauses within the conversation to give them a minute to kind of recharge and to let them know.
I got this. You sit back. I'll drive the boat for a while. You just get some sun on your face. Right? So I think that's important, you know, and then there's the over extroverts and they're going to talk. They're going to give you their pitch. It's a 30 minute one on one and you're going to get 30 seconds of it at the end.
Right? And how do you handle that? And I've had people who did that. And then I'm like, well, they're going to remember. They won't even know what I did. I think they may remember my name, [00:14:00] but I got a 30 minute interview. And I think for those people, you have to find out what's their objective and then how do you fit in, you know, if they're all about growing and sales and getting connected to people, then I think you interject them enough to say, Hey, I can connect you to here, here and here, just so that they, they see some value.
The biggest thing on the one on one is how are you creating value? And when I was a young salesperson, I thought I had to be the only value in the conversation. And now as I've wisened up or gotten better at my craft, I realized that the Rolodex of people I bring with me is a great value. And I, and I don't underestimate.
Leighann Lovely: So what would you say to, and. You know, I, I try to remind people when you go [00:15:00] on a one on one, it is not about pitching. It's not about pitching and, and I, I have gone on one on ones before where before I've even sat down in a lunch one on one where before I've even sat down, we're standing in line and the person is already practically pulling out their pitch deck and like, and I'm going, Oh shit, should I take an emergency phone call and like, excuse myself, like this is going to be an hour of It's a bad date.
It is a really bad date. Yeah. I didn't know that I had to have somebody pretend to call me to exit this, this date, like really quickly. What advice would you give to, to individuals who are a little, and I'm, and I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna, I don't want to pick on those individuals because there was a time when we [00:16:00] were all there when we didn't realize like, Oh.
We didn't set this meeting so that I could pitch you for the next hour on why you should buy my stuff.
Ben Zang: I think, I think you have to understand the difference between a one on one and a sales call, right? So, I think they're not, they're not the same at all. And I think if you're trying to sell during a one on one, I think you've missed the boat.
I think one on ones are, are about two things. I think they're firstly about the relationship and secondly, how are you useful? So when you and I talked back in your previous career, I'd say, look, these are the things I can do for the people you're talking to, just so you know, right? And that was a small part, but I think if you don't give at least that much of your pitch, then, then it's just a social call,
Leighann Lovely: right?
Right. Hey, you want a
Ben Zang: beer? We're just [00:17:00] hanging out and as fun as you are. My boss probably won't like that, right? Whoever I'm selling for, things like that. Or if it's after hours, you know, I have a wife and kids that probably would like my time too. And, and so I think it's that comes back to that intention of what you're doing, right?
So, um, how can I be useful to the people you're serving? And I think because in a sense, and I've gotten kind of slapped on the wrist when I've said, You know, I look at people sometimes like tools in a bag, who's useful for what, how, what problem can they help my people with? And because I'm act, I'm trying to actively listen to everybody I come in contact, then if I hear, Oh, problem A, well, I have this person who's amazing at problem and now I can be of service because I can make that introduction.
So I think, I think that's really, and then the relationship too, right? People do business with [00:18:00] people they like and trust. Right. And how do you build up that trust? You don't build it up by, you know, pitch slapping somebody, right?
Leighann Lovely: I like that pitch slapping. Yeah, that's great. So So, And, and, and to your point, yes, we, the, it sounds harsh.
It does sound harsh. Um, I'm, I'm not going to lie, Ben, um, but you're, you're correct. In your tool bag, who, who can you pull out that is useful in what situation, but it's true, does not minimize the relationship that you've built with them at all.
Ben Zang: Correct.
Leighann Lovely: Exactly. Um, and that, and that is the value of getting to know people.
And the reason that we do one on ones is so that we understand their [00:19:00] business. You and I have understood each other's business. What you do and the service that you provide, the, the size businesses that you serve, the, the individuals that you serve, I understand that so that when somebody comes to me and says, Leanne, I need help with X, Y, Z, I can go, Oh, well, I have a guy.
Yeah. I know a guy. Uh, and that is, that is wildly beneficial for me to be able to, especially when I'm working with somebody, to go, uh, well, I can help solve your problem. Let me make an introduction. That builds trust immediately with my client in even You know, even further because now they're saying, Oh, wait, Leanne can help me with not only the problem that her and I are working through, but she can go a step further and make introductions to three other people that could [00:20:00] potentially assist me with all of these other things.
And I
Ben Zang: tried to make a business on being the guy that at least knows the guy because, and I have told when I've coached young salespeople before, I said, look, If you're the guy that knows a guy or a gal that knows a gal, right, you will always be in the conversation. Right. And I think salespeople, that's our big win, is being a part of the conversation.
Correct. Right? So,
Leighann Lovely: advice that you would give Um, you know, this, this really leads right into the advice that you would give to a young salesperson coming into the crazy world of sales.
Ben Zang: So I think the biggest struggle young people have, especially young people when they come in is they, they sit across the desk and the person they've sat across the desk for has more experience in their industry than they have yours on the plant.
Right. Right. [00:21:00] What am I going to teach this guy? First off, the fact that you have been hired by a company, trained by a company, and given something from a company to sell means you're already more of an expert than 90 percent of the people you're dealing with. And so, I would say, just understand that that's the case, and you're gonna need at bats.
So, go out and fail a lot of times. Like, all, like, fail forward, Denzel Washington's big thing, right? Right. It's so cliche. But the, the non cliche things I would say is Be interested in your clients. If you're genuinely interested in somebody, people will understand that and trust them. I'd say, um, learn the success stories of your business quickly and, and have them at the, the top of your, at the tip of your thumb.
So if I'm talking to somebody and I can say, Oh, well, I just did something like this for another [00:22:00] company and it saved them X amount of dollars or it created this. Because people don't remember facts and figures, they remember stories. And so if you learn how to talk in stories, I think that's a big thing.
And I think the other thing is, is people underestimate enthusiasm. Nobody likes to have a conversation where the guy just talks so slow, right? Nobody wants that. Have a point. You can literally feel your life sucking down the toilet. I will never get those minutes back. Yeah. You, you've
Leighann Lovely: seen the movie Planes, Trains, and Automobiles, right?
Right. You remember, you remember there's, there's the scene there in the hotel and he's like pulling the, the, the, and he goes, I have an idea. When you tell a story, have a point. Yeah. Exactly. This is what just popped into my head. Like have, have a point. Make sure that when you are telling those stories and [00:23:00] you're, they, they need to have an, a, like a punchline, like a point, like, and I'm not talking about jokes, but you know, they need to, they need to lead somewhere.
I don't want to hear, Hey, you know, today was a snow day. Okay, what's the point?
Ben Zang: Right.
Leighann Lovely: Where, where's the point? What is, why is it relevant to me? And that's where, you know, that's where so many salespeople, I feel like in the beginning, they just throw out random facts, not relevant to the client sitting in front of them.
Right. Yeah, I agree. Just telling random things about your product.
We
Ben Zang: can save you X percentage, right? As soon as you get to, we can save you X percentage. You're done on what you're, [00:24:00] you're just done , right? This guy's like, oh my God. I mean, you might as well go Sunday, Sunday, Sunday. Live at the, like, it's, you're just done, right?
So learn how to talk to somebody. Like, they're like, they're in the the room. I had a sales coach who would say. Be bold, be brief, and then be gone. Right? They gotta, they have to get on their day. And I think, um, one of the things that I think young salespeople forget is they think closing is manipulation.
And so what I would say is, is closing is asking the girl for the date. And all of us have been in that conversation where we've tripped over our tongue and we've not asked the girl for the date. Or we've not asked the guy for the day or, you know, and while you're sitting there, both parties and understand what's going on and neither of them are getting to the point, it's painful [00:25:00] to learn how to close, right?
And if you're not sure, there's a ton of books out there. And they're all going to sound like cheesy pickup lines, but understand the purpose of
Leighann Lovely: them. I once worked with a saleswoman, um, early on in my career. And I remember the first time I went out on a sales call with her and she literally, she presented all of the information.
She gave all of the value proposition beautifully. I mean, I had, she was like a ballerina dancer present, you know, doing the show of her life. And at the end, she goes. So you're ready to buy from me? And they went, Yep. She goes, Perfect. I'll get the paperwork over and I just, we walked out and I went, Oh my God.
Like, she goes, Why sugarcoat it? Why, you know, I presented everything. I presented the pricing. And when she presented the pricing, it was, it was just, Here's how [00:26:00] much it's gonna cost. Do you have any questions about that? And just, she just sat there and waited. The room was silent, and I was so wildly uncomfortable.
And I'm like, Oh God, like, is a fight gonna break out? And they're like, Uh, no. And then she goes, okay, you're ready to, you're ready to buy. You ready to move forward? And they're like, uh, yeah, I mean, we walked out and I was like, Oh my God.
Ben Zang: I'm in awe of this woman. Yeah. When you watch it done well, as you're, as a young salesman, you're like.
Leighann Lovely: I'm like, how did you do that? Like, can you teach me? Yeah. I mean, she just, every time I watched her, I was in awe. She closed so many sales and she was probably the harshest woman, like the way she talked, not, not on sales calls, but [00:27:00] like she was so matter of fact. So blunt. So, like, if she was a nurse, she would have zero bedside manner.
But when it came to going in and doing a pitch, there was, it was cut and dry. Like, here's what we have to offer. Here's the value proposition. Here's how we're going to help you. This is why you should do this. This is, do you have questions? Okay. Here, here's how we're going to overcome this. I mean, she was brilliant.
And I I've, I don't know that I've ever seen anybody close, close, close, close, close, close, close like she did. It was unbelievable.
Ben Zang: I think as you get better on your craft, I had a good friend of mine who was very, a very good salesman. He's like, I am trying to pick myself out of the deal as fast as humanly possible.
And I, that never made sense to me in the beginning. And then he's like, because I want to know, is the customer right for me or are they not right for me? It's better for both [00:28:00] sides to know up front. And so it kind of goes back to that kind of unrequited love is a, is a B. I don't know if we can use the word on the podcast or not, but it is like, and you don't want to be the one on the other side of the unrequited love and the person who doesn't requite your love or whatever, however you say that.
They don't want to be in that position either. I've been in sales calls where what I, what I do doesn't fit them. And it's very clear it doesn't fit them. And so I've been like, you know, it sounds like We're not a good fit and here's why I would say that and so what I would say is maybe this is something that's part of your growth trajectory and we can revisit this or maybe this is a better fit for what you guys are doing.
I don't have to be the end all be all for [00:29:00] everybody. I mean, that would be amazing. Right. My pocketbook would love that. It's not true. You know, and I'd much rather be honest, then. Then be put in an awkward position later on
Leighann Lovely: down the line. Right. And there have been times where people have reached out to me and I've met with them.
They've gone over what their needs are. And I flat out said, I am not the right sales person for what you're looking for. I just, I, I wouldn't be your, you want XYZ. This is how I work. We would not be a match. I can try to help refer you to somebody who would be a match for you, but this, this is not, it's not how I do business.
It's not how I work. I, I mean, I wouldn't, there have been times where I wouldn't even have an alternative solution for what they're looking for. Then there have been other times where I'm like, I can come [00:30:00] up with a, you know, and my product is customizable for people. But when you know that it's just flat out, Sorry, this just is not a match.
It's better to, and on the flip side of that, I wish customers when they know, like, I'm not going to move forward with you. I would so much more like I would. And this goes back to the very first episode with Sarah Bauer, when her and I talked the, the greatest thing in the world is yes. The second best thing in the world is a no.
The worst is a, I don't know. Or, uh, I'm never going to let you know,
Ben Zang: I literally tell people, look, my job is to bring you ideas. Your job is to say, no, I make, I, I, I put it up front. Very clear. Look, your job is to say no. And, and people are always like, you say that. And I'm like, yeah, because one, it builds trust.
Because I'm not, they understand [00:31:00] now this is my job. I'm doing my job. Your job is to say no. Now the roles are clear in our relationship, right? Right. It's not, you're not stuck at, like, if you're in the friend zone, then be in the friend zone. If you're on the dating track, be in the dating track. Don't be somewhere in, in between.
And I think as long as those things are defined and you as a salesperson are in charge of that. They've taken your call. So now they've taken whatever, they've said yes to whatever, whether that's the 60 second pitch on the phone, whether that's the face to face time, they've said yes. So now your job is to define what's going to happen in that moment.
And the customer has every right to say, yeah. And your job then is to then continue the relationship, even if it's in a no situation. Because I've had people who didn't buy from me in the past. We've come back and said, now I'm ready for you. [00:32:00] Right. And I think that's, that's the biggest thing.
Leighann Lovely: Right. So we've come to a point in, um, the show where you now have your, um, shameless 30 second pitch.
Shameless 30
Ben Zang: seconds. Yes. Ben. So shameless 30 second plug. So here's what I do. I problem solve benefits for companies. I do a lot of, um, interesting and creative ways to solve that problem. And so I was a business owner myself, your people are kind of your bread and butter. And so what I do is I help businesses take care of their people, either through health insurance, dental, vision, short term, long term, all that kind of insurance stuff that nobody thinks is sexy.
I make it sexy and I kind of help you figure it all out. Um, it's long, it's boring, but I don't make it so. So, it's, I think education is [00:33:00] one of those things on those big scary topics that really makes a difference both to an owner of a business and to the individual within the business. And so. I've built my practice on creating that education and making it so people aren't intimidated.
So that'd be my 30 second pitch. I think that was like 90 seconds, but,
Leighann Lovely: Oh, I'm, you know, and so you are with transition benefits and, um, if you are looking to reach out to Ben, how would you go about doing that? So
Ben Zang: I actually, it's, people think it's stupid, but I actually give out my cell phone. Um, so you can call me 4.
Or you can email me at ben at transition or THBWI. So it's ben at THBWI. com. And then you can find me on LinkedIn. Um, you can find me all over. So I network like a madman sometimes. [00:34:00] So.
Leighann Lovely: Excellent. Well, Ben, Hey, I really appreciate this conversation. I think it brings a great deal of value for, you know, the, some of the younger generation entering into the sales force.
And again, I really appreciate your time today.
Ben Zang: Thanks for having me, Leanne. You're always a blast. So I would do this again in a heartbeat.
Special Thank you to our Sponsor Genhead – www.genhead.com
 
Robb Conlon – Intro and outro – Westport Studio - https://www.westportstudiosllc.com/
 
The Brave Ones – Instrumental Version Song by Jan Sanejko - https://artlist.io/royalty-free-music/song/the-brave-ones/119489
 

Understanding Multigenerational Human Behavior and Communication for Sales Success

In this episode of Love Your Sales I am joined by Brad Herda where we dive into understanding human behavior in this selling environment. Brand offers insights on self-awareness, the art of conversation, communication preference of different generations, and how all these factors can influence sales success. The enlightening discussion also traverse concepts like the DISC assessment, and multigenerational communication. They wrap up the episode with a highly useful discussion on recruiting young talent and adapting selling styles to the client’s unique needs. A must-listen for anyone in sales, looking to broaden their understanding of effective communication and sales techniques.  
Contact Brad –
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/brad-herda/
Website - https://www.vfbsolutions.com/
Podcast - https://blue-collar-bs.captivate.fm/
 
Leighann Lovely: Welcome to another episode of Love Your Sales. I am joined today by Brad Hurta, the founder of Vision Forward Solutions, supporting blue collar businesses to thrive in multigenerational workforces. Brad uses advanced skills of communication, accountability, and leadership to enable his clients to create a future that will allow them more time with family, develop their next generation of leaders, and have a high valued business.
By defining how you want to [00:02:00] work in the future, looking at what What is already working and identifying new ways to improve your life and business. Brad uses context to put the pieces of the puzzle together to see how you can take a chance at creating your new future. Brad, I am so excited to have you join me today.
Brad Herda: I am just happy to be here to be part of this, uh, this adventure that you are on now, and, uh, very happy for you taking on this. Uh, the role that you're taking, because it's a spot that you excelled and shine in. So thank you for even allowing me to be here. Well,
Leighann Lovely: thank you so much for those kind words. I, um, honestly, I'm really excited to talk to you because you do a lot of work with, you know.
I guess the DISC assessments that you look at with behavioral characteristics and then really talking a great deal, because you have a podcast as well, but talking a great deal about the multi generational communication. And that is something that, um, [00:03:00] I think plays a huge role in some of the new, um, younger, I should say, generations coming up in the sales roles.
Right. And selling into certain industries, that can become a huge hurdle for some of the, the younger generation. So this is definitely, yeah, this, it, it can be. Um, and so this is a topic that I, I'm really excited to, To kind of tackle with you,
Brad Herda: I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes, because the audience has the opportunity, I think, to learn something different.
Sometimes we do a lot of these things naturally, and we don't know what happens or why those things work the way they work. And if we can get into some of those details here to help them understand the why behind why it works with one person and not another, so they can change or adapt their style.
They may get a better close rate. They might get more effective. They could end up with more dollars in their pocket from their commissions, et cetera. So I'm excited to support them. So, let's,
Leighann Lovely: let's [00:04:00] start off with, I guess, um, first, what is a DISC assessment for some of those individuals that may not know?
Brad Herda: So a DISC assessment is just a behavioral assessment. Sometimes people call it personality tests. Some people call them just, uh, there's DISC, there's Myers Briggs, there's, there's literally hundreds of different ways that go out and do it, but essentially we, as humans have Communicate in very specific manners.
Um, this just happens to be one of the easier ones to understand. Cause there's only four, four quadrants, your, your D, which is your high dominance. You know, the guy that only cares about the facts and data, you know, the cold hearted MRF, or that just. Just give me the details. I don't care about anything else.
Then we have the eye, which is the influencer, which is everybody wants to be their friend. I want to be the life of the party. I'm going to, I'm going to be the use car sales, no matter what I say, that person on the other end is going to think it's all positive and rosy. And it's, and it's great. And I find those many of the high eyes to be somewhat annoying at times when I'm trying to sell or, or be sold to, [00:05:00] um, then you have your asses, which are the steady people, right?
They, they care about the people, but they also care about making sure it's the right decision. Very, very high anxiety. The fear of being wrong motivates them tremendously. They'd rather make sure they're right. Then to make a decision and be wrong and then we have the high seas, which are the compliance people, which are, let's follow the process.
Let's go step by step. If you gave them the alphabet and put it into a circuit, you know, going from a to Z, they go a, b, c, d, if they want a, l, q, p, w. You know, are that would drive them crazy. Hi, I could give two shits about that. Um, because they're going to go everywhere and it won't matter. So all of those things play a key role into understanding people's behaviors.
And if you can understand them and pick them out. Um, it works out tremendously and we've been seeing them for decades, every Disney movie, every sitcom, every drama has all these things baked into it. And that's why it engages us as we watch and participate and watch the movies. [00:06:00] I've never
Leighann Lovely: thought about it that way, you know, and Seinfeld just jumped into my head.
Absolutely.
Brad Herda: 100 percent Seinfeld is 100%. Four disc characters, all right there, all different things, right? Kramer's the high eye, just woo hoo, Cherry, it's crazy,
Leighann Lovely: right? Right, right, absolutely. Like the, oh my gosh, how, I've never really actually thought or, yeah. And that's why it's so entertaining because you see those different things represented and, and they come together and you're like, whoa, my God.
And the different personalities mixed together is really what is the entertainment.
Brad Herda: Correct. And you, you relate to one of those characters more so than the other. And one of them might be very grating. One of them might be just very annoying, right? Um, some of them's like, wow, I like this person a lot.
Leighann Lovely: And which is really funny is that I, you know, I'm, I know that I'm a [00:07:00] high I.
Um. Yes, you
Brad Herda: are. So
Leighann Lovely: now I'm thinking, wow, is that what represents me? I do not slide into rooms with my hair sticking straight up. But, but. Not
Brad Herda: always, some days, maybe. Depends on what's going on with the kids.
Leighann Lovely: Absolutely. I am, I am a person that, you know, when I start speaking, I'm pretty much just spewing out random, random stuff on a regular basis.
You're talking about the craziness that's happening and happening in my life. And, but there are times that I also can slide into other. roles where I kind of lean back on some of those other characteristics that, that can take control. So do you think that understanding where you fit can help a sales person or just in general help somebody in In their job.
Brad Herda: Uh, yeah, it would, when I went through the [00:08:00] training to go through that, uh, I was very blessed to go through some very intense training with Bsar's back in the day. And, um, that allowed me to understand my kids better, allowed me to understand my family better. It allowed me to understand some other things as well as professionally be able to get through the manager that I didn't get along with, but I had to, you know, grit my teeth every time I'd go in the office.
But as I learned to change the behaviors or change my. Communication style to that individual, our relationship became better, but I needed to take that course because he wasn't going to take the first step to figure it out because he was going to behave how they behave. And too often, that's what society does.
We are who we are. And as we've gotten more individualistic, it's, we are this way and we will be this way, and that's what we're going to do come hell or high water. And it's not going to matter. Okay, well, then if you're not going to adapt, you're going to miss out on almost 75 percent of the conversations for opportunity to, to create a better impact or a better, more meaningful
Leighann Lovely: [00:09:00] relationship.
Very interesting. So understanding the different, you know, the four core personalities. And obviously there's, I'm going to guess that, you know, these don't identify the, a person a hundred percent there you're ranked at different
Brad Herda: levels, correct? Yeah. We can take all of them and at different points in time, different things will come forward.
Um, you know, you're going to some life decisions in your high eye, right? But some life decisions you're going to take and, and. Making the career path change that you made, you spent a lot of time, energy and resources making sure it was the right change, bringing out all of your S in you, all your S goodness, um, to say, okay, great.
Cause it's a, it was a high risk. There were a lot of, a lot of risks and you wanted to make sure it was right before you just jumped in. Whereas what am I going to get Starbucks today? You could pick something who cares, right? Whatever it's liquid. You're not going to spend the time and energy [00:10:00] as much in that arena.
So just a lot of, a lot of it just factors on what's going on. And often when we get to larger deals or we get into that, I got to get the sale, I got to do this thing. And we come out of that place of scarcity and fear that we got to make it happen. We come back to our core value of whatever characteristic it might be.
And we missed the opportunity from the person on the other side of the table. We miss listening to the cues. We miss listening to. What they're truly asking you for because you're there to respond instead of there to listen and learn because that stress and anxiety is just so high in your own head and often it's our own head trash.
It's not even it's not even the real thing that's going on. We've told ourselves a story because we've never even asked the question the first time. Right.
Leighann Lovely: So now let's flip this around because understanding yourself obviously is wildly important to your own success. But as a young salesperson or any sales, let's, let's not say any, let's [00:11:00] first start off with any salesperson.
You're walking into a room, you're not going to give them an assessment before you walk here. Have this assessment before we have the sales meeting. That's not, that's not a real thing. You can't do that. Having won an understanding of yourself. And then two, understanding that there are different, like, very different personalities that exist, that exist out there.
How can that aid?
Brad Herda: So walking, yeah, so walking to the room, um, you know, we get that whole first First impression scenario, right? We get that 1015 seconds. Um, you walk in the room as the guest. Who's the person that got up to go greet you? Who's the person that made the first set the first eye contact? Who's the person that was the loudest in the room might be the eye in the room and jocular?
Who's the one that buried their head in their phone could give two craps that you're actually in the room? Might be [00:12:00] the S or the D because they're wasting their time Um, who's going to ask you all the process questions. Hey, we're here today. What's the agenda look like? Who's the one that has, you know, their hair all disheveled versus, you know, to dress to the nines in the room.
Um, some of those are key characteristics or things that could be behaviors to. X word outwardly identify what's going on as well. So, so you can walk into a room and kind of judge and figure it out by asking some very specific things or paying attention to very specific things. Who's the person that's just on the other side of the table?
Hey, how's it going? Probably introverted. Probably going to probably be on the C or S category C or S side of the disc behavior style. The person that gets up in the room, they walk all the way across the room, jumps over everybody. They come and say hello to you. Oh my God, I'm so grateful you're here.
Probably a high I.
Leighann Lovely: Interesting. And how does that play into the [00:13:00] success of, you know, Hey, Brad, I'm Leighann Lovely. I'm coming here to talk to you about X, Y, here. I'm going to. Tell you, I'm going to sell you this pen. Right.
Brad Herda: And so, so if you're going to sell me that pen and I'm a high C, you need to make sure that I'm aware of all the things that pens can, the warranty, how long it cartridge is going to last.
How many signed contracts can I get out of that pen? How many times can I click that thing when I'm nervous? What are all those things that are going to be really important to me is the high C potentially. And then can I get the value out of that from the cost basis? That pen might cost me 50, 000, but if I can get 5 million in return, why couldn't I do that?
So that's some logic based activity. Right. The high S is going to want even more reassurance. That's the right pen. Not, well, what about the other pen? The other guy sells, how's that work compared to there? And they [00:14:00] got to trust you that you're there to ensure that they're making the right decision versus you're just there to sell them a 50, 000 pen.
And that feel and that vibe, we all have had it, we've all gotten, we've all walked into a, you know, whether it's the appliance store, the Best Buy, Hey, can I help you? Who's all those commission type scenarios where people are there, you can feel when somebody is just there to sell you something to get a check versus really care about what, who you are and what you're trying to solve for your own problem.
And that's the connection that we buy from people. At the end of the day, we, we, we buy on the emotion and we use rationalization to justify our decision. If I like you, Leighann, I'm going to buy a 50, 000 pen, I'm, and I think it's going to be the best pen ever. I'm going to rationalize that 50, 000 pen in my head in some way, shape or form through the budgets, through other things.
But if we have that connection, you've sold me the pen. I'm not, I mean, why would anybody buy a 50, 000 pen? But it happens all the time. [00:15:00]
Leighann Lovely: I'd really like to see a $50,000 pen .
Brad Herda: Oh, back in they're, they're out there .
Leighann Lovely: Oh, I, I'm sure they are. I mean, there's, there's something for, for every rich person. The Right. I mean, and that's, that's wildly interesting.
I mean, taking the, the, being able to shift to meet the person at their level. Right. Meet the person where they are. But that takes. A great deal of one self awareness because you need to be able to shift and move and be very fluid in the way that you're approaching people.
Brad Herda: And be comfortable with it and not, and not have that uncomfortable, uncomfortableness become such a.
Um, hurdle for you to overcome that when you're out at the table, you know, you got sweat pouring down your face and palms are [00:16:00] sweaty and you know, you got the nervous need to kick going on or whatever it is, you have to get very comfortable. Being uncomfortable, adapting to others across the table and, and silence is one of the most important things in a sales world, having an eye, high I or high D be silent for 20 to 30 seconds, waiting for a response.
Oh my gosh, you're going to shit your pants.
Leighann Lovely: I know. Oh, trust me. That was the hardest thing for me as a young salesperson coming in. Whenever there was silence in a room, I felt like I was responsible for filling that gap. It, you know, you're like, Oh, nobody's talking. So I'm supposed to, to figure out what I'm supposed to say next.
But sometimes that is the most important aspect of closing, especially in closing. That is the most, whoever talks first loses.
Brad Herda: [00:17:00] Typically. Right. And, and one of the great questions to get out of the way is. Okay. The objection over price, and there's different schools of thought over that is the, do you lead with your price?
Do you lead? And I mean, Mercedes is not apologetic in any way, shape or form when they put up there, Hey, here's your lease for seven 29 a month for 36 months on all their car ads. They're not apologizing for any of that. And most people are going, Oh my God, that's ridiculous. That's what it is. And they don't care
Leighann Lovely: for some people.
That's a rent. Yeah. Do I pay my rent or, or half my mortgage payment?
Brad Herda: Right. So they don't apologize at what their price is versus trying to bury it underneath and bury it underneath the lead and go, okay, great. You know, Honda, I did that very much early on that they, they led with the, the warranty side of it and not the price.
And they were able to get the warranty and the price to coincide. And you knew you were going to go get warranty problems for until they built up their brand and their own quality. And we were the guinea pigs to build up that [00:18:00] organization. Because we took the price and the warranty and said, okay, great.
Then they fixed it and they had great customer service. And now they've, they're dominant. I want to say dominating, but they've changed what their vehicles were from 25 years ago. So
Leighann Lovely: let me ask you this. Now, obviously communication has drastically changed. I mean, well, it always is. It's always evolving. I shouldn't say it's changed.
It's evolving constantly. I never imagined there would be a time where I'm sitting in my office, which by the way, is in my home and my husband is on the upper level and I'm texting him in the same house. But this is a real thing. I mean, this happened. Communication is constantly evolving where sometimes I'm, I mean, I never imagined I would text my clients.
I thought, Oh, that's left for personal use. Right. But as time has gone on, From the first time I had my own cell phone when I was [00:19:00] 18 years old, we've gone from our, you know, cell phones becoming our everything, texting and emailing. So communication is, is. Evolving on a regular, constant basis and the younger generation coming in, communication has become drastically different.
I mean, correct. I mean, I'm, I'm in my forties and I look back and I go, do these kids like know how to communicate? And I'm sure that my parents looked at me and goes, did my daughter know how to communicate? What are these words she's using?
So for those of you who are just listening, Brad right now is laughing at me. But. Um, , I, I, I get text messages from my, you know, from some of these, my nanny or, and I get these acronyms or these, I mean, I, I, obviously, I know what LOL means, but careful, careful what you look up. It's dangerous. I know, I know.
My god, I know. Careful [00:20:00] what, and I get these and I'm like, what does this mean? ? Right. I don't know. So obviously with the younger generation coming in and moving into sales roles, um. It's, it's difficult to always communicate at the same level as Um, some of the owners of smaller businesses, some of the managers who are making the buying decisions.
Brad Herda: So, so let's just get some clarity here first. So when we say younger generation, so Gen Z, which is the current, which will be the youngest generation in the workforce right now, they're 26 years old. Okay. So, so they're 26. So if they've left high school and got went to the workforce, they've been in the workforce now for eight years.
Okay. Okay. Almost a full decade. So some of that we got to get over on our own self is that that self realization of, well, [00:21:00] all those young kids, they just don't know what they're at. So I'm 57 years old, right? So I'm at the tail end of beginning of gen X tail end of boomer. Um, Kind of stuck in the middle.
Then we got the millennials and the Gen Z's and then we got Gen Alpha behind that and understanding that, you know, Gen Z prefers communication digitally prefers because they are digital natives. They're not analog first, they're digital first and they prefer that methodology.
It's important to understand that if I'm going to go talk to some, a younger person that's in my B and I group or a networking event or whatever, I'm better off to connect with them to send them a text than to send them an email or make a phone call .
Mm hmm. Whereas I, on the other hand, when I want to say, Hey, just call me. Cause usually I'll have 10 or 15 other questions behind it. And texting conversations drives me batshit crazy. That's just me. , and that's them and that's okay. And, but understanding those differences are also very important. I do a talk for [00:22:00] multigenerational leadership and one of the questions I ask people about when we get to that point and said, okay, you get a thumbs up emoji from your boss, what does that mean?
Most people are like, Oh, it means okay. Yeah, go ahead. No problem. I'm like, are you sure? Are you sure that he's not tired of you being a pain in the ass? And it's not an F you just to get you out of the way, right? And the mind just go, I never thought about it that way. And the communication styles allow for barriers to understanding context and understanding true meaning because we take those things away.
And when you have Supreme courts and States indicating that a thumbs up emoji is a okay piece of a signed contract of a true deal. We have Supreme Court stay in the States in the United States that have upheld a thumbs up emoji to be an agreement to a contract that was never signed. Seriously?
Leighann Lovely: [00:23:00] Seriously. That puts a whole new perspective on when I give thumbs up, because sometimes I'm just like, yeah, okay, great.
Brad Herda: Like, whatever. Hey, do you agree to this deal? Yep. Okay. Thumbs up. Not a, yeah, send it to me later. No, there's, there's been, there's been lots of legal battle stuff going over those communication preferences and how things get communicated and what is a contract and what is not a contract.
So understanding those preferences might have some great unintended consequences for you, depending on how you're communicating across generations as well.
Leighann's face, just, what are you trying to imagine your dog right now? Just looking at you going, huh?
Leighann Lovely: I, okay. So there was actually, there was actually a battle, a contractual battle and a thumbs up was. Basically considered a [00:24:00] signature for a contract.
Brad Herda: Uh, let's see here. There, I'm trying to see if I can find it here.
Uh, that, there, it happened earlier in this year. It happened, uh, can the text message be a legally binding contract? So, tail end of 20, beginning of 22. Texting a thumbs up emoji in response to a question costs a Saskatchewan judge. Here we go. And I can send you, I'll put the link here in the chat so you can put it into your, um, show notes if you so desire.
Um, but yes, a Saskatchewan man, um, uses a thumb up emoji, cost of 82, 000. Wow. Please confirm, Kim, please confirm Flax Contract, thumbs up, question mark. Didn't confirm it, did not confirm it, but just please confirm it. It was a So, yes, right.
Link to reference article - https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/thumbs-up-emoji-costs-sask-farmer-82-thousand-1.6898686  
Leighann Lovely: So that they took as a conf like a confirmation of, yes, I'm, I'm okay with it.
And [00:25:00] yeah, I'll get
Brad Herda: back to
Leighann Lovely: you versus a, yeah, I'll get back to you. So obvious what, right, which, and again, you know, I, I'm okay with if the communication needs to be in text message, if that is the preference of the person that I'm communicating with now. You know, in retrospect, I'm like, okay, I got to really be careful with, with what I text in a new next time.
I'm going to text an emoji of a poop sign. No, hold on thumbs up. Like, I'll get back to you or I don't, but that really puts into perspective. The You know, the, it puts into perspective, I don't even know how to follow that. It's
Brad Herda: what it means to somebody else, right? That thumbs up to a younger person might be great.
I can just get to proceed. No big deal to an older person that might be, yeah, I'll get [00:26:00] back to you. Fine. Uh, yeah, sure. I got your text instead of just saying received, you know, an auto response or whatever. Okay. Make them go away. So I don't get another text. Whatever time of day it was. I just want you to go.
I just want you to know that I got it. Right. How we communicate that to each. Each other is different. Uh, I've got people that just get so angry at me when I don't respond to a text. Did you get my text? Well, yeah, I got it. What do you want me to do with it? You didn't ask me a question. You just gave me information.
What do you want me to do with the information? You didn't ask me anything for it. And I'm a high C person. So process rules. Okay, cool. You told me we're, we're meeting at five o'clock today. Okay. And then there's, then I guess I'll meet you at five o'clock. Do I need to send you a thumbs up and okay, uh, Hey, good job.
What do I need to do? You told me we're meeting at five o'clock
Leighann Lovely: recon for, you know, account [00:27:00] well, and then there's me too, where I have sent an email to my boss and then I'll, I'll hit send and literally run into his office and go, did you see the email? And he'll go, I'm not sitting here waiting for you to email me.
So when did you,
the excitability, the, you know, I'm not the only person in the room kind of thing where sometimes I forget that because I'm the high eye. That's very excitable. Yes. And I have to check myself sometime. I have to literally go, I need to go and take a breath. And because yes, I, sometimes that's gets away from me where, and I'm very, When I meet with a client, I let them speak first.
I ask them a bunch of questions and get to know them before I allow my personality to get too overbearing, because I know My personality can be very [00:28:00] overwhelming, especially to people who are introverts, who are that process person. They can literally go, Whoa, I need, I need to take a break from her. Like I'm aware of that.
My husband is a true, I would say he's a, an S, S or C. I mean, very extremely processed, extremely, you know, like. If you give him the alphabet and you don't give him a, b, c, d, I mean, he gets like, I got to stop come back to me in an hour,
Brad Herda: but, but it's important to understand that. And that's how, you know, to create those relationships to create that 1st impression to be able to qualify. So, you know, if I'm trying to sell to you as a high C and your high I, right. If I come into you and just come in hardcore, here's the facts, data, information on the product, whatever.
I cannot make a tangible personal benefit [00:29:00] of the product or the service or the relationship with that. I have blown the opportunity to improve my relationship with you and to potentially impact your business in a positive way, because I have missed the opportunity and missed the full boat of, of creating that relationship with you, the decision maker.
Leighann Lovely: And here's I had a salesperson call me and he called me and he just started talking randomly about this and that and what was happening in his life is talking about his dog. And I'm like, I love you. And he's like, okay, just not even talking about his product. And I was like, I'm going to buy from you,
Brad Herda: right?
Because you've developed the opportunity to know what's going on. And it wasn't about, it's about creating a relationship. And sometimes that that's like we said earlier, if we buy from the people we know, like, and trust, and you've got to be able to prospect those individuals. And just because you don't like me doesn't mean I'm not a prospect.
[00:30:00] Um, if, if I fit that persona. of your, your ideal avatar for your product or service, and now you want to filter out based on whether I like somebody or not, your pool is going to get really small very quickly. So how
Leighann Lovely: does, say this 26 year old coming in, their preference Is, you know, one way, so
Brad Herda: their communication modalities are a certain way, their individual characteristics could be something different.
They could be a high D, high, high, high S, whatever that might look like, because we're at the end of the day, we're still all individuals and generationally, we still have those characteristics, but I want to share some interesting, some interesting data for, um, I belong to a home building trades foundation, and we did some work with the launch program here in town doing some research for us.
How do we can connect with people with students and that don't [00:31:00] have any interest in the trades? And they did some research in 1979. 64 percent of those eligible to work in high school had high school jobs in 2022. That number is 15 percent 15 percent of those eligible to work in high school now work in highs, have a job during high school.
So the other 85 percent that when they get out of high school or they decide to go on to college and if they do decide to go on to college to have a meaningful job outside of college is almost like non existent. So the first job coming out is the first job and we've changed from an employer perspective.
We have put the onus on that first employer to help that individual be successful in and support them to be successful in whatever industry they're chosen, and we don't take the time to do that because we've not realized that because that's not where us as myself from that age group haven't come from that.[00:32:00]
Leighann Lovely: So that number went from, wait, from, from what to what?
Brad Herda: From 64 percent in 1979 to 15 percent in 19 and 2022.
Leighann Lovely: Oh my gosh.
Brad Herda: So when we get those conversations of, we don't understand why these kids can't work well because they haven't worked and they're not doing that. So when you say the 26 year old who might be four years removed from college, who might have only been working.
You know, service industry, fast food, you know, dominoes, Amazon, whatever to, to live the lifestyle and says, oh, okay, and we go to work for the insurance company to go sell things or to be the. Um, you know, cut, go knives or pick whatever, whatever that is, where they take younger people in to go find what's going on, having this, the process, the training, the communication, the support, the structure to define success for them along the way is really, really critical.
And you'll find organizations that do a really great job with younger. [00:33:00] Younger talent because they've defined expectations, put things in place, set things in place and move them through the system versus just a pass fail. If you're going to set up a pass fail for your salespeople coming out of school, you're going to be very disappointed.
Leighann Lovely: What? Okay. So I find that I was not aware of that statistic. So and I should have, I should be aware of that statistic, but we took over the
Brad Herda: show. We're going a different route. No,
Leighann Lovely: no, no, no, no. So this is wildly interesting because obviously I worked, I mean, as soon as I was eligible, to work. What is that?
Back in my day, it was 14. It was 14. You had to apply for your work permit. Then you could work and you had to be minimal, could only work a certain amount of hours a week. I'm going to assume that they still have some type of parameters on
Brad Herda: that. Like seven o'clock. They have to, they can only work till seven o'clock if you're under 16 right now.
Leighann Lovely: Right. And then, um, and you have to have a work permit, all that other stuff. And you can only work a certain amount of hours a week because they still want you to focus [00:34:00] on school. Um, I worked the max hours that I could, could work. I worked in the weekends, but I would go to, you know, work, blah, blah, blah, blah.
That was wildly important. For me when I was in high school because one that was how I party if you had no cash Exactly because my parents didn't just hand out cash and and the money that I made when I worked 50 percent of it had to go to my savings and the other one the other amount I could keep and and I was I Was a saver my friends used to always come to me and be like, do you have any money?
And I'm like, yeah, and they're like, how do you always have money and I'm like because I always save Like the, the money I make and I'm not buying
Brad Herda: cigarettes and beer.
Leighann Lovely: That's well, and I, I was back, you know, as soon as I hit like 16, I was okay. We, we all add our, you know, our person to go to and be like, can you go buy me some cigarettes and beer?
Uh, I mean, I even attempted to, you know, bring the note to the gas [00:35:00] station and be like, my mom told me anyways, I was a, I was a little rebel. Um, that was, that was what you did. And when I was in high school, you got a job. And as soon as I was 18, I, well, I went to the military when I was 17. I graduated early, went and worked, and then I never stopped working full time.
Like that, that, that was just what you did. And then I went, I, I finished college full time while I was working full time. And I've never stopped for, I should be a millionaire. Why am I not? Just as much money went out the door as it came in the door, you know, anyways. So the idea that these kids, but here, but it's also the generation of the parents that, you know, well, I had to work so [00:36:00] hard.
I don't want my kid to have to work. We have our own
Brad Herda: problem. We've created our own problem. And it's always, and we're not recognizing that. So being able to take that 24, 25, 26 year old person into a sales role to teach them those things, because at the end of the day, they went to school. They live through COVID.
They didn't, maybe they were in school during COVID and they didn't have right with no interaction. No, this, no that. And there's a lot of stress and anxiety there. Plus think of all the. Um, cultural and social things that have happened over the last 10 years and how that's impacted them differently than maybe you or I compared to desert storm or nine 11 or other things that have happened or space shuttles, all those other things that impacted our lives, their lives have been impacted differently to create different social cues and different social norms and different social expectations that doesn't change who they are from a human being, from a disc profile perspective, it just changes how they like to receive communication and how they like to be, um, [00:37:00] Educated and, and nurtured and mentored and coached and going through that sales process by coming and say, Hey kid, just tell me what the fricking number is.
They're likely going to be what, what do you mean? Just know my process because they've been, everything's been scheduled for them since they were age five, how do I deal with these curve balls that come out of place? And some, some individuals are much better at that others are not. So finding the right behavioral characteristics, I think is important to put them in the right roles or success.
And too often, we just. I think people are interchangeable. Right. Well,
Leighann Lovely: and, and the reason, so, and here's another, my, I, I wanted to go into sales when I was younger, but my, my dad was a sales manager, managed up to 60 agents at, at, at, at one time, you know, down to, you know, 45, it fluctuated. He was a real estate agent, ran an office, various different offices, you know, promoted throughout the years, blah, blah, blah.
Um, and my dad, I, I talked to him [00:38:00] about, you know, I'd love to go into sales. And he looked at me and he goes, you know, I, I love you. I don't believe. That you have enough life experience to be able to be good at it, to be great at it. Go get some work experience, some life experience to be able to, and, and he was not wrong at this time.
Again, you know, my, my history suffered with bipolar disorder. I was, I think I'm a high I, go back to when I was in my twenties. I was high I with a side of crazy.
I didn't have the life experience nor the self discipline to be able to go into a room and listen to somebody, hear them, and then to be able to determine a solution for them in a proper, strategic way, let alone be able to, anyways. Right.
Brad Herda: I guess, so, so, so, Hank, can I interrupt? Yes. So given that [00:39:00] scenario, right?
Dad saying, Hey, there's not a life life experience. Here's what's also happened. I think culturally that becomes a difference. If I take that same 20, that same 23, 24, 25 year old land, Leighann put her in a room with those same individuals today. And you're capturing all that information and listening and going through it and setting expectations of what I can get you the response versus feeling the need to have to have the answer for everything right now on the spot and those type of things.
That level of expectation has changed. In the business environment over the years as well, because we're not expecting everybody to know it because at the end of the day, I can always grab my phone potentially and look something up and it's not that big of a deal that I have to know everything. But what you do need to do is set your communication expectations for thank you, Mr.
Smith. I do not know the answer to that. I will contact George who's in San Francisco later today when I leave. And is it okay if I get back to you tomorrow? It's 8 a. m. Will that be satisfactory for you taking that [00:40:00] approach? In without the work experience, without the life experience of opportunity.
Changes the sales functionality tremendously if you're willing to adapt to those things and not feel you have to do it all at one, one stop shop. Right.
Leighann Lovely: Absolutely. I mean, the, the, the environment of how we sell of even in those appointments has drastically changed. Um, and, and I agree with that, but just being able to communicate clearly and being able to listen and being able to sit in those meetings, you still have to be able to have.
Um, you know, that it's an art form and again, I'm not trying to, to somebody who's interested in doing this. I'm not trying to make them go, Oh, I can't do that. It, but there is, you do have to have a certain amount of self awareness and awareness of the room because there have been times when I've been in the room sitting next to [00:41:00] a colleague who is doing their thing and watched eyes start rolling back because they're just not aware.
Of their surroundings
Brad Herda: and you're going on page 17, section 13. 2. 5. 4, there happens to be a period out of location here and we can fix that for you in that template. That's okay. Mr. Smith, right?
Leighann Lovely: Well, and I've, I've seen demo. Yeah. I used to sell sad solutions where we would do demos and you know, and it's like, Okay.
Um, set it up to what they want, not train them on the product, you know, so anyways, we could continue to go on forever. Unfortunately, we are running out of time and I want to give you, Brad, your, um, opportunity to do your 32nd selfless or, um, shameless pitch. You take the floor, um, go ahead and do that and we'll wrap up.
No
Brad Herda: worries. Uh, so Brad, her division for business solutions, and we support blue collar businesses to hire [00:42:00] anybody of any age to thrive in their business. So they have value at the end and something to sell. So many blue collar guys have given so much to so many, they forget about themselves at the end.
And people are usually their biggest deterrent to getting what they need for their business. And supporting them to understand that they can hire a 22 year old and they can do it differently and getting them out of their own way to build up that pipeline and build that pipeline for success is one of the biggest barriers they have to overcome to, um, sell and buy multiples at the end of the day.
Leighann Lovely: Awesome. Brad, thank you so much for joining me today. This has been. Um, honestly, an eye opening conversation for me. I love, but I love it. I love learning new things. I love, um, it's why I do what I do. It's why I have these conversations with people to learn myself and hope, um, you know, and hopefully educate, um, you know, those who are listening.
So remember if you like the show, um, you know, share it, like it, follow us, um, and thank you everybody for joining us today. [00:43:00]
Brad Herda: Thanks for having me, man. I appreciate it.
Special Thank you to our Sponsor Genhead – www.genhead.com
 
Robb Conlon – Intro and outro – Westport Studio - https://www.westportstudiosllc.com/
 
The Brave Ones – Instrumental Version Song by Jan Sanejko - https://artlist.io/royalty-free-music/song/the-brave-ones/119489