Love Your Sales

Understanding Motivations behind Conversations

Join Meg Schmitz and I for another amazing conversation as we dive into importance of building relationships and understanding the motivations behind the conversation. She shared her unique approach to problem-solving to understand the underlying goals and needs of the other party. Meg emphasizes that everyone is in sales, and building a relationship based on trust is crucial for success. By ensuring that the other party believes in the intention of solving their problem, closing deals and achieving desired outcomes becomes easier.
Contact Meg Schmitz
Website – https://megschmitz.com/
LinkedIN - https://www.linkedin.com/in/megschmitz/
Podcast – Free Agent - https://megschmitz.com/podcast/
 
Leighann Lovely: Meg. I'm so excited to have you here today with me.
Meg Schmitz: Thank you, Leighann for having me on today.
Leighann Lovely: Yes. So Meg Schmidt is joining me. She is the founder of take the leap. Franchising Meg is a 30 plus year veteran in the world of franchising sales, which is really a matchmaking for both franchising companies and future owners for Meg selling is not a job.
It is an art form of listening and understanding the [00:02:00] goal of both sides to ensure that no one is pressured and everyone wins. You also, um, are often referred to as the franchise fashionista. I am. Awesome. Well, again, I'm so excited to have you here and talk about sales.
Meg Schmitz: Yeah, let's talk about sales. I, it's something that I graduated from college thinking I would never do because I graduated from college with a degree in counseling.
And then I, I did an internship, this is really interestingly, and I did an intern internship at Northwestern Memorial Hospital in Chicago on the psych ward and it scared the heck out of me. Certifiably really crazy. And so I thought, Hmm, maybe there's another way I can monetize this. And so for a lot of us who have a degree like that, going into sales then creates an art form of sorts where it's, it's very [00:03:00] similar to therapy.
Leighann Lovely: I it's so funny because as you're saying this, I'm thinking, well, half the time I'm a salesperson and half the time I'll go into a meeting and as you're going through the discovery, Because what we're asking questions that bring people to their pain points, bring people to their, their need and depending on what kind of sales you're in, that can be a heavy load.
For somebody to, to talk about it, you know, depending on the subject, especially if you're going into a large organization, who's like, oh, I need to fix this with my H. R. process or my computer. And often you become the, the counselor that, or the trusted advisor. That they literally just unload on and you walk out going, Oh, that was, that was a lot.
Meg Schmitz: Yeah, but it's getting them to trust that you have something that they, they [00:04:00] know they need. And we can talk about price and what happens with that negotiation, but, um, getting. Getting past the formality of sitting across the table from each other and starting to ask those counseling questions. So why are we having this conversation?
Why, why did you invite me in today? What, what kind of problems are you noting? And have you tried any other alternative? You know, all the questions to ask, but you start to get the other person or parties to be honest about why this is a pain point. And then you know, too, with Simon Sinek and why it starts with, so what do you do?
Oh, how did you get to do that? Or how do you do that? And then there's the, the essence of it is why do you do that? So why, why are we having this conversation is one of my favorite questions to ask.
Leighann Lovely: And so when you ask that question, [00:05:00] what do you find is the,
is there a default answer that people go to, or is that something that really opens up? I mean, because that's obviously an open ended question. Why, why are we having this conversation? What, what is it that you need
Meg Schmitz: from me? My own business therapist likes to ask the question, so what's your problem? Talk about open ended and it's a great question to ask.
So what's your problem? Versus my approach is very much softer. So why are we having this conversation? They know that there's something they need. They need brochures. They need signs made. They need a new bus to take people to a. Um, whatever to get people off campus and going to and from event event planners, they have to ask those questions all the time.
So why are we having this conversation? What do you want to accomplish? And we're all in sales. We're all in sales. And [00:06:00] the easiest way to clinch the sale is to have a relationship dynamic with the other party that they trust. Our efforts are in the best intention of solving their problem. And that's, that's how to get the dollars in the deal.
Leighann Lovely: Okay, so I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a moment, Meg. So you ask me, or I, I'm your salesperson. I come in and I say, okay, so Meg, why are we having this problem? And you, your answer, well, Leighann, um, I need XYZ. As that salesperson, my next go to is, oh, great Meg. I can solve that problem. Here's my solution.
Meg Schmitz: Sometimes you need to dig and dig and dig a little bit more before volunteering that you have the answer. I I like to do [00:07:00] that, to get them to open up further. And so right before when we hit record on this, you asked me about something that I know very well. And so if I were to put on that hat and say, and I did this with a young man, actually, I've been working with him for two years.
We've all had this, where they're not ready to pull the trigger, the time isn't right, the money isn't in order, um, corporate isn't saying yes at this time of year because we're in budget shutdown. Okay, why are we having the conversation right now? Have you, have you talked to other vendors about this?
What solutions has anyone else come up with, or what have you already paid for? That he's like, Oh man, that was a waste of money. That was a waste of time. Give me some background on this whole problem and what types of solutions you have sought out already. Then, then you're in the cat bird seat and can say, okay, yeah.
I have a [00:08:00] solution for you based on everything that you've just said to me. I can save you the time and aggravation and fill in the blank of whatever they said their, their yuck was, but asking more questions about what they've already done to, to talk to other companies in the product or service wasn't the right thing.
That's why they're talking to you is that they're, they're still searching.
Leighann Lovely: Right. And do you think that that is a symptom of some of the older generation of offering a solution to, and maybe it's not a generational thing or a training thing or, and it's probably a training thing, but do you think that that is why there are a lot of misses in sales?
Meg Schmitz: To me in preparation for this. I was thinking about you yesterday and I was thinking about the different techniques that I as a 60-year-old who's been in sales since I was 24, when I graduated from college at 22, so I've been in sales since I [00:09:00] was 22 there. There definitely are different approaches.
There's Zig Ziglar and there's, I mean, go down the generational list of books, , the Self-help books on sales, right. Not only do younger people and I'm working with three couples right now that are 40 and under their approach is different from my standard approach. So I find myself every day just trying to twisting a bit so that I'm, I'm adapting more to their style.
Let's call it that. I do think that there are generational style differences.
Leighann Lovely: And in those generational styles, do you think that and yes, there's definitely,
as the younger come in and here's what I love is being a salesperson is that I can learn from the older salespeople's approaches. I can learn from people who are my age and I can [00:10:00] learn from the younger generation coming in because there is just fresh blood and they have these. I'm like, wow, that's a really good technique that I never thought of the in sales.
It's a constant. You can learn from. Every single age person that comes in with these new techniques and not that you can't, you know, in other industries, but, you know, accounting, it's like, well, it's pretty black and white, like, this is the way that you do things and trying to change processes. It's much more difficult to do because it has been proven to, to work this way.
They're not as adaptable, but in sales and in certain industries, it's like, wow, you can pivot really quickly and figure out like this new approach works. This new approach works. Like the robocalls don't work. Why haven't we figured that out? This is, I know it's maybe a little bit new, but it. As soon as I hear a robocall, I hang up on [00:11:00] you.
Anyways, I digress. Um, I get like eight of them a day, which I, I absolutely, I love, but there are core skills that have through and through throughout history just worked in sales and more recent years. I think that we have figured out that
in your words of what you kind of wrote to me prior to this. Embracing your solution, being who you are, has become the
10 to 1, yes, the absolute difference. So I guess my question to you is, you had mentioned we're, we're all selling, but what is the difference between a great seller [00:12:00] and a mediocre?
Meg Schmitz: I could make so many analogies and I'll, I'll start in a second, but I think that listening active listening, caring. So why is this a problem?
Why, why hasn't it been solved yet? With that knit brow and the care and concern in the face and, um, the, there, I think in sales. Unlike accounting where it's standard, knowing the opposition, knowing, knowing the age, knowing as much as you can find out about the person sitting across from you, how old, if you're selling to a 72 year old that, and I'm 60, that's different from selling to someone who's 32, you have to know who the other, who the opposition is and one of the, one of the best tools.
Out there, [00:13:00] I think people don't fully utilize is LinkedIn, because You're putting in information that your colleagues will call you out on if, if your LinkedIn profile isn't correct versus what you put in a resume, for example, that you can put anything you want in a resume, but what goes in your LinkedIn will scroll down, read more about the 10 different past positions, read more about the.
Different affiliations, the six degrees of separation, the six degrees of Kevin Bacon were all related somehow you can really make a conversation start with 98 percent of the people out there. If you're good at your job and and are learning about who you're going to meet with ahead of time. It's not a cold call then, then it's a warm conversation.
That's such a key differentiator. I used to do cold calls all the time. We didn't have tools like we have now to do recon on people on [00:14:00] the internet. You can learn so much.
Leighann Lovely: Well, and that, I mean, you, you absolutely hit it on the head. Like the, I mean, the no like and trust factor, if you can come in with relatability.
Um, having some, and that's as, as a new salesperson coming in, especially, you know, they're like, wow, how do I, how do I connect with these, especially as a new young salesperson coming in when you don't have a, you know, 20 year or 15 year history of, of, you know, Oh, I know that author, or I know I recognize that name when you don't have that bucket to pull from of, and I remember being.
You know, new to sales where I was like, I have no idea what these people are talking about. And I feel like I should like, but that's that world, the experience, that learned experience where you're like, how do I, how do I, how do I jump on the bandwagon that everybody else seems to be on in this room, but I'm [00:15:00] completely lost.
And that's where it is of know your audience, know what room you're walking into. Are you walking into a young professionals? Or are you walking into a heavy hitter? These people are all above the age of 40, have 20 years of experience, are all, you know, high level, it doesn't mean you shouldn't walk in that room.
It just means that you should walk in that room a little bit different. And don't act like you don't belong.
Meg Schmitz: Oh, well, and that gets to a phrase that's very common these days. And people are definitely afraid of the imposter syndrome. We've all been imposters our entire lives. We have not known, we have not known how to do something.
We've not had a knowledge base. And so from the minute we were born, we were accumulating experience. So we've all been imposters our entire life. When I gave birth to my son 33 years ago, he did not know that I'd never done this [00:16:00] before. I was an imposter. I
Leighann Lovely: never thought about that before. You're right.
When my, my daughter looks up at me like, mommy, what am I, what am I supposed to do? And I looked at her and go. Well, you're supposed to do this. And in my brain, I'm thinking, I have no idea what you're supposed to
Meg Schmitz: do. So we've all been there. I remember my first job, I was selling temporary services in downtown Chicago.
And I remember walking into a building across the street. I had a territory that was right there at state and Madison. And so I go up into an office. building. I remember this one guy saying, why should I buy from you? You're no different from manpower or what's the difference? And I remember saying nothing.
I remember being so caught off guard that I was embarrassed and you know, and he was Kind enough to say, I can see that [00:17:00] you're embarrassed, but don't be embarrassed. You're young and this is probably your first job. I said, well, it's actually my first week of my first new job.
And he, he was so kind about it, but it helped me to realize that. Yeah, we're all going to go into phases in our life, whether it's a job or a relationship or something where you don't know. And, and the softer approach is if you're in a networking situation, just to sit back and listen and learn and don't be afraid to confess that you're brand new.
It, it is, I remember a different sales experience where. I was absolutely humiliated out of my mind by the guy whose office I was sitting in, and he walked me out. Don't call him my company again. I was so mortified. I'm, I'm like the most right person. I don't do wrong. I do right things. And there had been something that, [00:18:00] that obviously ticked him off about, I think it was some of the reconnaissance I had done at the office about what other departments in his company had done before hiring temporary services.
And I called out a dollar amount. And that's, that's what got him is that somehow I'd done more research and it maybe caught him off guard, but it humiliated me and said, don't come back. I could get into the details to make it more clear what the whole scenario was. It doesn't really matter. Sometimes we get humiliated.
Sometimes we get the benefit of someone who's willing to say it's okay. But if you're going into sales. toughen up because you're going to get crazy stuff flung at you. And half the time you're going to have to tap dance and say, I don't know, but the best answer is I will get back to you on that versus trying to make something up.
Leighann Lovely: Absolutely. It is better to tell somebody that you don't know the answer than to, to make something [00:19:00] up
or You know, and here's the thing in today's world. If somebody were to act like that and escort you out, you should not be ashamed or you should not be embarrassed. They should be ashamed of themselves because that behavior it's, it, it should not happen. Salespeople do their job. They're told to do that.
You know, they're under a pressure. By the company to meet a certain quota, they're going to go out. They're going to do that quota. Now, unless obviously the salesperson walks in and does something egregious or says something to, you know, humiliate or whatever it might be. But that and I got, I, I made this mistake.
This was truly a mistake. I called the company and got her to click. And I was like, oh, okay, picked up. I called the company again. I heard a hello. And I was like, hello. And then I heard a [00:20:00] click and I was like, oh, this keeps getting hung up. Like disconnected. I called again. I heard a click and I'm like, I don't know what's going on.
I called back again and the guy said, stop effing calling me. And then he went as far to go on the company webpage. And put a review saying that the company I work for, which are our company name must have been popping up on like caller ID caller ID and put a review that I was harassing and I was like, and my boss, he's like, were you, what happened here?
And I was like, I thought I was being disconnected. I'm like, I truly did not realize that, like, all the guy had to do was like, pick it up and say, I'm not interested. Instead of, like, just keep picking it [00:21:00] up, like, and clicking or just let it go to voicemail, right? I mean, that that behavior. Is like, inappropriate behavior and for somebody to just keep hanging up.
How was I to know? And
Meg Schmitz: that's the beauty of being in sales too, is that there's a deep, deep sea out there. There are a lot of fish in it. Don't take it personally, move on. There are other opportunities that await, but that's part of being young too, young and aggressive. And I've got a quota and I'm going to get through.
And sometimes you just. Let it go. I think that's really the beauty of having years and years of experience is that you've been a consumer, you've been sold to. I'm in sales. I've been [00:22:00] sold to. I know what I don't like and I'm more likely to offer some forgiveness, but there are times when caller ID, it's a beautiful thing to your point, just let it go to voicemail.
One of the, one of the great, um, technology feats these days is when it tips you off on your phone to tell you it's probable spam. I love that. Right. I'm not going to answer. Right.
Leighann Lovely: It does. It says it. I remember the first time that it popped up and it said. Potentially does it say potentially? Yeah, and I was like, oh, should I answer this?
Like, potentially spam. I'm like, that's awesome. However, on the flip side of that. I wonder how my phone number, my business phone number comes up. Am I being marked as potentially spam? You know, you, you never know what that may look like to the other [00:23:00] person.
Meg Schmitz: Well, now I had an interesting situation happen where it came up as potential spam.
They did leave me a voice message and it was, it was my doctor's office. It came up that way. So anyway, then, you know, there are all sorts of anomalies that are out there for the, for the sake of getting the sale done. It's just easier to let it go. Let it go. Don't take it personally move on is what I mean.
Let go move on. Don't take it personally, you're going to be young and aggressive or you're going to be older and motivated and people are going to be offended. I think people are more offended by little things now than ever before. Don't take it personally. Just don't take it personally and move on.
You're selling a commodity product or service. There are other fish in the sea. Absolutely.
Leighann Lovely: Now, you mentioned something. When you were young, [00:24:00] you didn't know your difference. So, how would somebody, and why is that so, I know why it's so important, but. For some of those younger people coming in, why is that so important?
Why is knowing your difference, knowing your why, knowing your product, why is
Meg Schmitz: that so important? Well, you get in, you get commoditized, compared, I have people do this all the time with my, my franchise investigation process. I want them to compare and contrast companies against each other. Well, there are three different residential cleaning companies.
I represent 12 different senior care companies. What's the difference? Well, they'll all tell you very clearly. They there's a difference from one to the next. And so for each of us. In the world of dating, you're in sales, you're, you're competing against. So what's your difference? Well, why does it matter to the other party?
It goes back [00:25:00] again to what matters to the other party so that you can appropriately sell yourself with sell your difference. If you know what they need and you, you really can negotiate just about anything. If you know enough from the other party about what is going to get them to say yes.
Leighann Lovely: And as an individual, and this is what I struggled with, as an individual presenting.
The company is obviously important, but people don't buy a company. So how do I sell when people nowadays want to buy
Meg Schmitz: from people? Well, so the, the, even in the work that I do. And it's a crowded field now. Everybody seems like is jumping into franchise sales because it's been hot over the last three years.
There are brokers everywhere. [00:26:00] There, and I don't consider myself a broker. Then there are consultants. People who really try to make a match. Well, I'm not just a consultant. I've been a business owner, employer. I'm an angel investor. I do this, that, and the other thing. I could go on about, I'm a podcaster, I'm an author.
Some people don't care. They want to know what kind of experience What kind of shortcuts are there, Meg? Well, if you've done all of this, what can you teach me so that I don't fall into the same pit, the same trap? If you're, if you're different from everybody else, who's out there, how did you get to be different and why does it matter to me so that that is unfortunately something that day in day out, as you do your job, you'll accumulate that experience.
You're, you're not born with it. You do have to actually try, get out there and. And build your, your quiver of [00:27:00] arrows and those come from experience,
Leighann Lovely: right? So despite the fact that you work with, you know, people who are franchise owners and there is a brand, there is a, um, you know, a solution or how do I put this?
There's a brand associated with those franchises. They knit their own persona personality into those brands. Is that what I'm
Meg Schmitz: understanding? If you think about it, every franchise That you've ever visited and it's something like one out of 12 businesses is a, is a franchise, but a lot of them operate as if they're a little boutique practice, whether it's a B2B bookkeeping.
A lot of people don't know that there are franchises out there that do that. . So, if you think about it, every business. That is a franchise started once upon a time as a little bitty idea [00:28:00] that was Leighann sitting at her desk, talking to her husband, having a whiskey at night, thinking throughout the day and weeks, you know, and I could build a better mousetrap.
I've got an idea. So every idea, every business starts with this little nut of an idea, and then it. It builds into something much bigger. So we all, we don't all want to grow our business into a franchise, but some of those business models are, they can be duplicated and then they can be easily replicated.
And that's when you start to get the, the notion that the genetic code of this idea really is a franchise franchisable business model. So the So many different business opportunities out there and so many founders of companies that have to, we all have to figure out what [00:29:00] is our difference. So for an example.
I represent at least 12 senior care, companion care, long term care, medical, non medical franchises. So they will parse out, well, we do it differently because we recommend that our franchise owners hire or, or contract with seniors. It's a population of people who is getting out of the workforce. They still have gas in the tank.
That's our differentiator. We're going to call ourselves seniors, seniors, helping seniors. Right. For example, that's just one, one way for a crowd in a crowded field to differentiate yourself. It's in your name, then it's in your branding. It runs through everything that you do and that's what you hang your hat on.
Leighann Lovely: That's awesome. Well, Meg, you have given so many and, and I've thrown some pretty hard questions at you, [00:30:00] but you've given so many gold nuggets of, of amazing information here. I really appreciate you coming on. If somebody wanted to reach out to you, um, to talk about franchise opportunities or connect with you on LinkedIn, how would they go about doing that?
Meg Schmitz: So it, I'm easy to find on LinkedIn, it's Meg Schmitz and, um. I'll pop right up. The Franchise Guru is a nickname that I was given by the Wall Street Journal, but you'll see that on LinkedIn. So you can connect with me there. I also have a website in my name, megschmitz. com. I have blogs and podcasts, and I really gear my website to be informational.
Um, I am an entrepreneur besides I don't advocate franchising for everybody. You're an entrepreneur and have curiosity about a franchise. It's there are a lot of different ways to get into business and it's not a one size fits all conversation. So I'm very much following my own advice here. And that is to lean in, listen, ask the right questions so that we can get to the bottom of why are we [00:31:00] having this conversation?
Leighann Lovely: Perfect. Meg, again, thank you. Um, Meg also has the free agent podcast. Um, again, this will all be in the show notes, uh, her LinkedIn, uh, will be there. Her website, everything will be in the show notes. So again, Meg, thank you so much. I really enjoyed our conversation.
Meg Schmitz: Thank you, Leighann. It's always great to spend time with you.
 
Special Thank you to our Sponsor Genhead – www.genhead.com
Robb Conlon – Intro and outro – Westport Studio - https://www.westportstudiosllc.com/
The Brave Ones – Instrumental Version Song by Jan Sanejko - https://artlist.io/royalty-free-music/song/the-brave-ones/119489
 
 

Know, Like & Trust - How Sales and Marketing Should Work Together

Lisa Raebel shares valuable insights on the power of marketing and sales. It explains how marketing builds brand awareness and captures the audience's attention, and how sales rely on trust to convert leads into customers. Join us as she unravels the "know, like, and trust" framework, explaining how it drives brand awareness, engages the audience, and ultimately converts leads into loyal customers.
Contact Lisa Raebel –
Website - https://rebelgirlmarketing.com/
 
Leighann Lovely: Welcome to another episode of Love Your Sales. I am joined today by Lisa Raebel, founder and chief storyteller. Welcome, Lisa. I'm excited to have you. Thanks. Thanks for having me. Yeah. So, Lisa is the, Rebel behind Rebel Girl Marketing. Not only are you the, , founder and chief storyteller of Rebel Girl Marketing, you are also the author.
Of an amazing marketing, a guide to [00:02:00] marketing. You are a speaker, leader in your, you know, industry sales professional, author, podcaster. I'm so thrilled to have you join
Lisa Raebel: me today. Thanks. Yeah. Full schedule, right? Yeah. Yeah. When you love what you do, it's easy to do it all the time.
Leighann Lovely: So what I would love to do, is dive right in, to a topic that I think most people who are in the marketing and sales, , you know, arena understand this, but people who are kind of on the outside often misunderstand.
The difference between sales and marketing. Yep. And so I would
Lisa Raebel: love to talk.
Leighann Lovely: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's so, so often use people use that term. Oh, so you're in sales and marketing. So let's talk about the difference between. What those two things are.
Lisa Raebel: Absolutely. Um, there is a [00:03:00] gentleman who coined the phrase, no, like a K N O W no, like trust, which is in my opinion, what I use foundationally for when I do my trainings and my speaking.
So no is people know you have to exist. That's marketing, getting it out there, brand awareness, all those really great things, right? Like is the content that you have. So what the marketing that you're doing, what are you saying? What is the, what is the art? What are the visual aspects of your marketing? So no, like is marketing for sure.
They have to know you exist. They have to like what you say. And then the transition from marketing to sales goes from like to trust. They have to trust you enough to buy. They have to trust you enough to give you money in exchange for what you're selling. So it has to work together because marketing is the brand awareness and like grabbing the audience's audience's attention and getting them engaged with you.
And then the sales is just taking them. That's the transactional aspect of what you're selling. So no, like trust is the [00:04:00] absolute connection between sales and marketing. And you can't have one without the other. You have to trust yourself enough to give you money in exchange for what you're selling.
Actually closing a transaction, what's the point? And if you're just trying to sell all the time to people who don't know and like you, yet you're, you know, you get to that sleazy aspect of sales where nobody wants to be there either. So it's definitely working in tandem with each other.
Leighann Lovely: So that's a wrap.
I mean, everybody understand, which is
Lisa Raebel: great
Leighann Lovely: explanation. So I mean, and so you said that so perfectly beautifully and you really did. I mean, it seems so simplistic, but as a salesperson, I'm going to go, okay, wait, wait, wait, wait. What if I don't have a marketing team? , how do I, how do I position myself at all to.[00:05:00]
Yeah. How do I position myself on the marketing side? How do I even begin?
Lisa Raebel: So there's five questions that I talk about, it's called, and I do this as a speaking event as well. It's called market the five steps to market like a rebel. And it's literally answering these five questions. And the thing is, you don't answer these five questions once https: otter.
ai Regularly because it depends upon the product. You're selling the time of year. You're selling. Um, like, if you, if you're launching a new product, there's a lot of things. So the 1st question is why do I need marketing in the 1st place? And people think it's like more clients, more money. Yeah. Is it though?
Um, because sometimes if you're a brand new, it's brand awareness. Like I need people to know that I exist. Like I just started, I need brand awareness. So my marketing is all about letting people know I exist. And then sometimes it is new clients. You know, there's a lot of attrition when it comes to sales, like a client doesn't need your [00:06:00] services any longer or you lose them to competition.
So you need new clients. So that's the second reason why you need marketing. Another reason would be you're launching a new product or service. 1 of them could be you want to be a subject matter expert. You want to get on stages you want to be hired as an out at an outsource. Expert at a company. So there's a lot of reasons why you need marketing.
That isn't just more money and more sales. I have one customer or one client who she needed. She had capacity for all of her stuff. She has a Pilates studio. She has enough clients, but then she wanted to do a campaign for upselling those clients to bring private Pilates classes, because if she sold any more clients, people wouldn't be able to get in their studio and then she'd lose clients.
You know, there's, there was a capacity with what she does. So there's a, there's a whole why you need marketing in the first place. The second question is what are you selling? And this is not products and services, you know, features, benefits, that kind of stuff. This is like, what [00:07:00] problems are you solving?
What emotions are attached to those problems that you're solving? And then writing your content around the emotions and like grabbing that person's attention. Um, there's a, there's a wheel of eight basic emotions and there's always opposite, right? There's disgust and then there's acceptance. There's. You know, there's frustration and then there's joy, right?
There's opposites. So if your customer is really frustrated about something, how do you bring them joy in that situation? And that's another, there's a whole nother gamut of things to do. And then it's, who is your target audience? Because you might have different products. You're not going to have the different person.
And within that, that's a confuse your audience too much. But when you sell, you have the buyer, the people who are actually writing the check, you have the end user, which is not always the buyer. And then you have the influencers of the users and the buyers. So your marketing could be based around that.
The other question is where do they hang out? So the question for is like, where do I go? Where are these people engaging with this information? Is [00:08:00] it online? Is it in person? Is it, is it audio? Is it visual? Like all those, what channel do I use? And the last question, the fifth question is what do I say when I get there?
And so if you answer those five questions. Truly, honestly, with that aspect of it, then you can build marketing off of that. And as salespeople, we should know all five, answer to all five of those questions. Correct.
Leighann Lovely: And, and it's funny because as you're going through that as a hardcore salesperson, you know, my default button is always, Hey, marketing is great.
And that's a great way for people to know the business, you know, know who or what company I represent, but my, you know, and, and, and this is funny because I've, I've actually sent like verbiage over to like, Hey, I just want to make sure that this. This pitch is correct that I'm representing the product.
Right? And my marketing team will send back this beautifully written like statement. And I'm like, how am I supposed [00:09:00] to say that? I'm like, no, this isn't for and that's again, a very different approach from marketing. And so, because as a salesperson, I want the down and dirty. How do I say this in 20 seconds to encapsulate what.
I do that represents what you're creating as the brand online presence or whatever presence you're creating. Right. Um, and that's where the alignment comes in as the salesperson going out saying, this is who I am and what I represent. And there's so much more to it. This is. The really down and dirty, you know, if I'm just that sleazy salesperson going out to market saying, okay, here's my product, here's my, there's a lot more to being a successful salesperson than just going out and pitching my pitching.
Yeah. Right. Then
Lisa Raebel: pitching. Yeah.
Leighann Lovely: But, and I, and I will go to my marketing team and say, I just want to make sure that [00:10:00] I'm accurate. In our product, in our persona, in our, and like I said, it's really funny because they always come back and say, well, here's how I would write this. And I'm like, well, that's not how you say it.
That's how you write it.
Lisa Raebel: That's you hit the nail on the head. And this happens. And company after company, after company, sales and marketing are constantly fighting each other because they don't understand each other. And I think that's one thing if audience, if you could walk away with one thing and you have a company that has a sales and marketing department, please.
Just listen to this one piece, the reason marketing people don't understand what it's like to be out to be a salesperson is because I've never been a salesperson. And the reason that sales people don't understand why marketing makes it all pretty and fluffy and stuff is because the, you know, the salespeople don't understand what it's like to have the pressure of, you know, they've got things are going off of, they're going off of like analytics and, you know, all of the different like data [00:11:00] that they had to go off of and just industry standards.
So do this. Do me a favor. If you have a marketing lead and you have a sales lead, please shadow each other for two, three days. Two days. And sales. Hang out with marketing and marketing. Go out into the world and hang out with sales. Go on prospect calls, go on client calls. Hear what they're actually saying.
Because if you're trying to create a marketing inside four walls for a company. And you've never been out into the real world of that organization to talk to the salespeople, like to see what the clients are saying, then it's the same thing and mark and salespeople go, go to marketing meetings and like strategy sessions and say, Hey, you know what?
That sounds great. And this is what the clients are actually looking for. These are the problems that we're solving for our clients. The problem is they don't talk to each other. Right. And I don't understand it. They're on the same road going in the same direction for the same company with the same goals.
And yet, for some reason, they don't want to talk to [00:12:00] each other and they're at odds with each other. It's literally a conversation would solve all of those problems and your sales will increase. I promise.
Leighann Lovely: Right. And you, Lisa, coming from somebody who grew up as a sales, as a salesperson and also now having that strong, you know, amazing marketing while being the rebel behind the rebel marketing, you know, rebel girl marketing.
I mean, that's. That's an amazing ability to have both aspects of that and me being, I will not ever tell anybody that I'm a marketing person, but being able to work closely with my marketing team and see the stuff that they kick back to me and I'm like, no, no, no, no, I'm just looking for validation that we're in alignment and they come back with.
Rewriting my entire pitch and I'm like, how would you go and say that in 20 [00:13:00] seconds? I'm like, it looks beautiful and you did a great job of writing it. But I can't speak that with those big words and pretty fluff. And and then we laugh about it. And that conversation was so eye opening for both of us.
And the fact that that's. Isn't happening, as you just said, isn't happening, but it's crazy,
Lisa Raebel: right? And I've stood in boardrooms and listen to the CEO ask me, like, could you make these two please play nice in the sandbox basically. And that's how I say it. Nicely. He had other words, but it's, and it's literally, I sit there and I listened to these, these two leads.
And I'm just like, and I say that what company do you work for? What is your goal? You trying to grow the business? Do you need more sales? And both of them say, yes, yes, yes. Then what then what, and then I make them shadow each other for a day or two. And it's [00:14:00] amazing when they come back, they go, oh, I didn't understand this.
Oh, I didn't understand that. Oh, I didn't realize how hard sales was. Oh, I didn't realize, you know, if you've never been in sales, you don't understand the emotional. Rollercoaster you go through on a weekly basis. And I think that's what marketing is missing is that they're like, Oh, they're just out there like talking and taking people out for cocktails.
And they're just writing checks. No, it's right. It's hard. So, no,
Leighann Lovely: and ,i,
I completely, it is, and, and again, I talked, you know, on, on our, the, the last episode, when I spoke with Sarah, we talked about the misconception that salespeople are, are out there just having fun and just talking about there is, there is a strategic.
Work that goes into that and into being able to talk to somebody and be able to identify where those pain points are and then help and guide that [00:15:00] client into will. And again. As a true salesperson who wants to help and doesn't want to just have the client sign a check because I'm not interested in somebody buying from me who in a month from now is going to go, I don't, I don't know why we're working together.
I'm not interested in selling something to somebody they don't need. So. Exactly. Guiding, guiding them to figure out. Why and how we can work together, that's going to solve their ultimate problem. Sometimes people don't even know they have a problem until they all of a sudden are working with you and they go, wow, this, the light bulbs just went on.
Yeah.
Lisa Raebel: And I think that's the, that's the really good sales people are strategic listeners. And so that is something I was at a, an event and I was talking to the gentleman who was the keynote speaker. And I'm like, I don't know, cause he was talking about your gift. Like, what is your unique selling proposition?
And I always said mine was the [00:16:00] fact that I've been a salesperson. I've been a marketing director, you know, I've run a marketing division and I've been out there with the quota over my head. Right. And so I understand both aspects of that. And what he said to me was, cause I brought up some of the stuff he was talking about.
He goes, you're a strategic listener. And he goes, and that what's, that's what makes a good salesperson and a good marketing person is because they're listening for those cues. I mean, I turned a two month engagement to a nine month engagement simply by listening to the people that I was at the company.
They, you know, they had an email campaign problem. And it went so much deeper than that. And so once they identified all the, all the holes in their customer experience, and I said, well, your sales aren't falling through in the email. They're falling through much earlier than that. And then much later than that, like they had a bunch of gaps in their, in their client experience.
And they're like, they didn't see it. And, but it was all because you're listening strategically and whether you're a marketer or a salesperson. Strategic [00:17:00] listening, being a strategic listener is a learned skill. It's not like you're either born with it or not. You could learn how to be a strategic listener, right?
Leighann Lovely: And I can identify back to the time where I, where I used to close. And this goes back to my recruiting days, my, my dad used to tell me, you can't listen at all. You're, you, you're horrible. And I used to do, um, interviews. By the phone, and I used to miss so much information, so I started closing my eyes and typing with my eyes closed and then asking because you when you block everything else out and you just start.
Like, really, truly listening now, you can't do that. If you're sitting in front of somebody, you can't close your eyes. They're going to think you're insane
Lisa Raebel: or driving. Don't do that. If you're driving. Right. Don't.
Leighann Lovely: Leanne told me to, um, but you really, you really, if you hyper focus on what people are [00:18:00] saying, like there's so much information now, again, I wouldn't, you know, body language also can say a million and 10.
Body language can say more than words can at times, especially when you're sitting across the room from somebody and you're watching, you know, their eyes roll back and you're like, okay, it's time to move on from this. But now, before we get off on a tangent on that, I want to realign this conversation and talk about brand.
Strategies when it comes to, because you work with individuals, you work with, or not individuals, but you work with. Yeah. Soulpreneurs to, you know, larger organizations. But I want to talk about the importance of making sure that each individual salesperson is representing themselves as a. Individual salesperson at the same time representing the brand that the marketing team has [00:19:00] built and why that's important.
Lisa Raebel: Well, it goes back to the trust factor. I mean, okay. Anybody listening to this podcast, and I know you'll relate to this too, can sit across from somebody who has not said a word yet and you still get the ick. Like, I don't trust this person for a reason. You don't know why it is. They haven't said a word.
Can you picture that person in your head? Can you picture or people in your head over time that you've worked with them? And you're just like, yeah, I don't trust this person. And so that's the personal brand. That's the personal brand of like, are you showing up on time? So there's a lot of things that could set you up for success just by being prepared.
So. Um, that whole aspect of being an individual, you know, are you showing up on time? Are you showing up prepared for the meeting? Are you being a strategic, are you listening strategically? Are you listening and repeating what they say back to them? Are you engaging [00:20:00] with them? Are you smiling? All that body language stuff, right?
And so that's how you become an individual professional that people can trust. I could, I don't know what it is about me, but people tell me things. That I don't know why they're telling me it, but they're, they're like deep and personal and like, like business owners and, you know, CEOs will say stuff to me.
It's like, I don't know why I just told you that I've never told anybody that fear, but it's, it's that persona that you're putting out there. So if you're showing up late and you're not prepared, you're not looking them in the eye and you're not really paying attention. Like. And if, okay, I'm just gonna say this once, if anybody picks up their phone during a sales conversation, I will slap them across the head and stop it, put your phone away, turn it off, put it, keep it in your briefcase, your purse, wherever you're putting it, pocket, you leave that on the table.
That is, first of all, that's the first message to say, I'm talking to you, but somebody more, more important might want to get my attention. So the phone is on the table. And so that [00:21:00] just that one move right there shows that the person you're talking to across from you is more important than anything else.
And that's what builds the trust. That's that individual brand. That's that individual like aspect of like, why am I a better salesperson than somebody else is because you show up mind, body, and spirit to talk to the person that you're talking to. You're not distracted by anything else. That's the one thing.
And then once they trust you, once they have that trust factor, like, I know I'm important, I know this person's going to be taking care of me, then they'll be telling you the stuff to do the selling and do all the branding and all that other stuff that you do. But you got to show up and be trustworthy first.
That is number one.
Leighann Lovely: Absolutely. I, I completely, um, and the cell phone thing that is not just in the people that you meet. For business for my, the greatest piece of [00:22:00] advice anybody has ever given me is that if you sit down and you, this goes back to, okay, I'm going to jump on my soapbox here for just 2 seconds.
So, during the pandemic, we all talked about all of a sudden families were becoming more connected, sitting down and eating dinner together and implementing these new rules of no technology at the table, or there is something to be said. For actually sitting down and unplugging from technology and saying, yes.
I am going to give you my full and undivided attention without having the beeps and bloops and all of these things going off where your attention is being divided. If you and my dad would say this, if you sit down for 15 minutes with your daughter every day and give her your undivided attention with nothing else going on.
He goes, you will have a wonderful, solid relationship. Not to say that I'm ignoring you the rest of [00:23:00] the time, but undivided attention, no TVs, no phones, no nothing. And I will tell you, and I told this story that it's probably been, it's been a couple years cause this was when she was like two or two and a half, I was in the kitchen and she was trying to get my attention and I was on my phone working.
She came up behind me when she was like two and a half and she bit me in the butt. I mean, outright bit me because she couldn't get my attention because I was on my cell phone working and that was
Lisa Raebel: the level she was at. So that was the most convenient place to bite you.
Leighann Lovely: Correct. That's where she was. And it was that moment when I went.
Oh, we have a problem here. It's not her problem. It's mommy's problem. I'm giving her half attention. She, she wants to play and she's going to act out to get there. If we're not, [00:24:00] if we're not fully engaging people and, and I've sat across from business owners who are looking at their phone and who are, and I will tell you, and I've had clients who I'm trying to work with them and they're like, oh, I gotta check this email.
I gotta check. It's, it's horrific. It's absolutely horrific. There's no trust factor there. There's, there's even an ick dislike factor that starts to play in. And as a salesperson, if that's the person you're representing, I wouldn't buy, I wouldn't buy from that person. And
Lisa Raebel: as a salesperson, if that, if you're, if the client is doing that, do you want them as a client?
No, no. Because I think what happens is that we get this quota and I'm always saying there's always this quota as a salesperson. You have to hit these numbers or else, right? As a salesperson, that's a lot of pressure and you're thinking, [00:25:00] well, I could hit my quota. This, this one's out, but they're a total, I can't swear.
Jerk. Right. Let's just use that word. There were different words in my head, but, if they're a total jerk and like, do you want like to be tied to this person for years and years to come? I mean, they're just going to be a pain in the, in the tush. So like not every client is a good client. So it's, it goes both ways.
And what's so interesting is that when I teach solo entrepreneurs, especially and small business owners are like, I just, I don't like sales, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, because it makes me nervous. I get all sweaty and I don't know what to do. And I teach them. If you do all the prep ahead of time and you walk into the conversation, looking for a mutually beneficial converse, like a agreement, you're, that is what makes you confident in sales.
What you sell is worth buying, but the person across the table from you needs to be worth selling to as well. And if you change your mindset to that, people who don't like sales or they, they think they're going to [00:26:00] be slimy or pushy or whatever, because they've had that experience in the past, that is what you do.
And you say, okay, you change your mindset. I'm prepared. I know what I sell is good. I've done my research on this prospect. I know what's going to happen in here. And if you get any instance, it's like. It might not be worth it. It might not be worth it. And you have to take that into consideration. I've literally told somebody across the table for me who just I sat down and the factor was like.
Skyrocketing. And I'm like, how quickly can I get through the sales conversation? But it was, it was set up by, so you didn't really know me that well. Like, oh, oh, you do that. Oh, you should meet my friend, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, I don't think I'm the person for you. Right. Like you we've had five minute conversation.
I said, yeah, but there's a lot of things that I can tell about a person. And I said, and I think what you're looking for is all you're worried about is increasing your revenue. You don't care about the customer and I don't work with people like that. And he was literally offended. And normally I would never, ever, ever, [00:27:00] ever say that about a person.
But what happened was it broke down a barrier and we had a really great conversation. I didn't end up working with this gentleman because it turned out he didn't actually need what I was trying to pitch to him. But at the same time, it's like he, I don't think he realized that he was doing that.
Sometimes the truth hurts, but sometimes the truth is really good. But don't do it if you're working for like, I work for myself. So I only had to report back to myself, but if you're a salesperson reporting back to a sales manager, just be careful. Right.
Leighann Lovely: And that's sometimes the hard truth for yourself or the hard truth for the clients that you're potentially going to sometimes that's maybe not in the moment, but sometimes it's the best possible thing that you can offer somebody that you're choosing not to work with
because they might be stuck on that wheel too. And helping them get off that wheel so that they can properly find, [00:28:00] if they do truly need assistance with your offering, they might be able to then properly find somebody that does match with them. And I've done the same thing. I've turned down business because what they want is not what or how I felt I best matched with.
Right. That individual. And again, you're right. If you're working for a large corporation, they may not be so keen on you saying, yeah, I don't really want to work with you. But if you are, you know, if you do have the liberties to be able to say, I'm not sure that our services right for you, sometimes that's the most liberating thing that you can do is to be able to walk away and free yourself up for the proper right clients who are in alignment with your brands and with what you're, with what you stand for, right?
Lisa Raebel: I actually inherited an account. It was a very, it was a large account. It was a nice commission, all that stuff. Right. But I always put that [00:29:00] appointment at the end of my day because the guy irritated me so much. Like you can love me or you can hate me, but don't love and hate me in the same sentence. I don't know how to process that either.
We're doing a great job or we're not doing a great job, but like. It was, it was, it was torture. It was like literally torture. And I was assigned this person. I didn't sell this person, but it was just so funny. Cause like my dentist is like, what have you been doing? I'm like, I, I literally got had to get a new crown because I was like clenching my teeth so hard with this client.
I'm just like, and I don't, I swear to God, I was God. That's how I probably had an ulcer. He was terrible to work with, but. It was, it's hard because I was in corporate America. I was assigned to this person and my manager was like, you know, this is a big client and you have to be nice to him kind of a thing.
And I was just like, I couldn't stand him. I couldn't stand it. But at the same time, it's like I was working for somebody else. I
Leighann Lovely: had no choice. And that is sometimes the situation we're in. So Lisa, this conversation has [00:30:00] been so absolutely amazing. We are coming to time. I mean, but we've hit some really awesome,
topics. , I mean, the no like and trust factor, being able to, you know, brand yourself properly to, the way that, you know, sales and marketing should be working together. And honestly, if they were just having that conversation, how they would be able to work together. I mean, it's just really been a great conversation.
I want to give you the opportunity to read, you know, tell the audience. You know, a little bit specifically about what your business offers and how they could reach out to you. So this is your shameless plug. Um, take it as you will. Yes. Take, you know, take the time to, to, you know, tell us, you know, how we can reach out to you if, if somebody wanted to
Lisa Raebel: do so.
Yeah, so if any of the stuff that we talked about today kind of hit a nerve with you. Um, like the whole understanding sales and marketing or the 5 questions I talked to you about that build a foundation. If like, you don't know the answer to those questions. That's what I do. [00:31:00] I help people who are subject matter experts in whatever that they do, but don't they know they need marketing, but they don't know where to start.
I help them start into that. Like understanding what marketing is, because you might've taken a class in high school or college, but that's not going to get you very far with your business. So my job is to help small businesses stay in business by using strategic marketing that fits for their business.
And so I can do one on one strategy sessions, or I have a one to few that's going to be starting in Q1 of 2024. So if you want to reach out to me and find out more, it's Lisa at rebelgirlmarketing.com or visit my website. Same thing, rebel girl marketing. com. And I love to have a conversation with you.
Leighann Lovely: Awesome. Again, Lisa, thank you so much for joining me. This has been awesome.
Thanks.
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Misconceptions of Sales and Salespeople

Welcome to the first episode of Love Your Sales, join me and Sarah Bauer as we dive in to the misconceptions of sales, salespeople, the skills required to succeed in sales such as active listening and negotiation, and the selling aspect in different roles, not just sales-centric ones. Additionally, we are exploring the concept that everyone, in one way or another, participates in selling or negotiation, whether your aware of it or not.
Contact Sarah Bauer –
LinkedIN - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahheggernesbauer/
 
Leighann Lovely: I am super excited today. This is the first ever episode of love your sales. I am joined by Sarah Bauer. She has nearly two decades in sales. She runs her own team at Heartland, payment systems, which is a part of global payments incorporated. One of the largest. Payment processors in the U S Sarah, welcome.
I'm so excited for you to join me on the first ever episode.
Sarah Bauer: Thank you for having me. I'm excited.
Leighann Lovely: Yes. So, um, I think to dive in today, what we are going to [00:02:00] do is I guess, talk about some of the things that a lot of salespeople, a lot of people on the outside of sales, you know, talk about, which is somehow, I guess the, the misconceptions of sales, salespeople, what we do, right?
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, and I've experienced this in my career. Um, I think one of the hottest topics is salespeople go out and have all the fun. Have you ever heard that in your career?
Sarah Bauer: Oh, yeah, it's, it's, it's a, it's a very glamorous job, let me tell you, but yes, you're right. And I think one of the biggest challenges is, is someone who's not in a sales position.
So you're an engineering, you're an ops, you're an admin, whatever that position is. Um, every business has a sales team. It might be very large. It might be a person of one. It might be, it might look differently in every organization, but you see them going to [00:03:00] dinners, grabbing a golf, voting, you know, kind of working early, working late.
And it's kind of like. Well, wait a second. Are you, are you working? Are you just having fun? Are you going out for drinks? Like, wait, wait a second. I'm here doing my job. Why are you going out and having a blast? And there is this truth to it, right? Like networking and building relationships is a huge, huge component of sales.
And it might be even more so in some industries over the other. But I can see how that can be a little challenging, especially if you are sitting in a leadership position where you maybe have Teamwork You know, your sales team going out and doing all the air quote fun things. And then the team that has to stay behind to do all the busy work or the face to face in office work, how that can kind of be perceived as like, wait a second, they're going out and having all the fun.
And I will say this. Sales is fun, but it's fun for different reasons. That's not necessarily like, Ooh, I get to go golfing or I get to go, you know, do trap shooting or whatever [00:04:00] it might be, yes, or some fun components of it, but I'll, I'll let you in on a secret sometimes I would really just rather stay in the office and do the thing too, so.
It is, there's, there's more to it than that. And, um, you know, the grass is always greener, but yes, there's definitely that preconceived notion that that's what we're doing. Um, and there is truth to it. We actually are doing these activities. Um, they are a part of the sales process, but it can be. It can be kind of exhausting too, to be honest.
It's that always on kind of mentality. There's not that break like you might have working in an office. You can go grab your lunch and go on a lunch break here. Oh, actually I need to go see a client. I need to go. You're, you're always on. And that's the exhausting component of it.
Leighann Lovely: Yeah. And now what you've been at with your organization for what, six plus years, you run a team.
You're, I mean, you have a team that you're, that you, um, manage. Is that the proper [00:05:00] word? Yeah.
Sarah Bauer: Yeah. I both manage a team, um, as well as sell myself. So it's a, it's a managerial role, but it's, um, my primary function is to bring on net new clients. So it's, it's more of a support system. Um, so it's, it's the best of both worlds.
Right.
Leighann Lovely: So not only are you out there constantly selling yourself and, you know, but you're also supporting other people. So you've got, you've got the best of both worlds. And it's funny, funny because prior to us, you know, recording you and I were talking about you just coming off of a business trip, getting home, you know, you have a family and People are like, Oh, it would be so great to, you know, be in sales and you're, you're constantly out having drinks with people.
Well, sometimes I want to hide in a closet, eat my lunch and just decompress. But that's, that's typically not an option for a day in the life of a salesperson. It's just, it's not usually, you know, not usually, but quite [00:06:00] often we're like, Oh, great. I can have lunch and also meet with a client. At the same time, because now I'm, now I'm getting actually more work done while I'm eating.
Right. So sure. Glamorous. I get to go, you know, have lunch on the company dime. If your company is one that pays or reimburses for that. But the reality is that you're still out there. You're still working when, you know, a lot of these other individuals are actually walking into a lunchroom or going up into their kitchen, depending on your work situation and being able to decompress, being able to play a game on their phone, watch a show, get some laundry done, whatever your routine is.
On that lunch break,
Sarah Bauer: there's something to think about, too, you know, uh, really, I've met some really incredible sales professionals in my career, and it doesn't matter what you're selling and what your audience is a good and successful sales professional is always on. So [00:07:00] take it even a step further. Um, Uh, you know, you go to Thanksgiving dinner, right?
And, and maybe, or a friend's giving, or you go out for a social event, like a truly social event. And inevitably someone comes up to you and says, Hey, what do you do for a living? Right. And there's your pitch, right? There's where you have that opportunity. Well, I got to tell you, it's real easy to be like, Oh, I work in sales.
And then typically if you just say that people go and they walk away. Cause they like this salespeople, but here's an opportunity where, especially if you have a pretty wide range of market, if you take that a step further and explain in a short amount of time, what you do, you might, and many times this has happened to me kind of go, Oh.
My brother in law is looking for something like that. And so to go back to the always on part, truly a successful sales professional is going to weave their life and their work together. So it is exhausting in that sense. Um, but let's just say, and I'm just going to say you're, you're an admin, um, for a company.
Well, you're not. Actively seeking new business [00:08:00] necessarily. You could explain like what the company does, but that's not your primary function. So being on in sales does even extend into family and personal life as well. And, you know, truly successful salespeople will, will totally embrace that too. , it's, it's just kind of a part of your nature and, and, yeah, it doesn't bother me anymore, but I remember a time when I really wanted to separate church and state and As soon as you embrace it, it's kind of like the concept of like people who have.
A work phone and a personal phone, honestly, it's just like, it's all one phone. If you want to talk, if someone wants to buy from me, I am happy to take that phone call. Right.
Leighann Lovely: And here's the funny, here's the absolute funny thing. As you're saying that I'm going, Oh yeah. You know how many times my husband's had to pull me to the side and go, no, honey, this is date night.
You're not allowed to talk about work. And I'm like, yeah, but that could be the next client. That could be the client who's paying for this dinner or paying for the next [00:09:00] mortgage, you know, mortgage payment. And he's like, you need to shut it off. And I'm like, I don't know how to shut it off, but I will make every effort in the world because I love you.
And then the next person walks up and they're like, Oh, hi. And they're talking to us. And then the inevitable conversation starts. What do you do for a living? And I look at my husband and I go, I'm in sales and sales
Sarah Bauer: and sales and say it proudly. You know, one of the things that I struggle with, if I could really ever make an impact on this.
World is that the whole, like, you work in sales, but that feeling that maybe someone outside of sales kind of gets when you hear that, that we can make it, we can just make it normal. So I think back to my high school, when you go, you do those career tests, right. And you fill it out, like what you're going to be good at.
Um, and then you get into college and you might have a path, right. I like where you want to go, what you want to do when you grow [00:10:00] up. Do you remember being offered. The opportunity to learn about sales. I mean, I think back to that. I remember going, I'm going to be a manager and I'm going to be an executive and I'm going to move up the chain.
And this is what I'm going to do. And granted, you know, live and learn a little bit, but I get into sales soon after college and like, I don't want to do that, but like all we had was a sales position open, I'm like fine. And I did it. And I was like, well, but I want to be a manager. Well, I got to tell you what.
My first job out of college, I worked in sales and then eventually they added managerial responsibilities onto me. And at the time, I mean, 22, 23, 24 years old. I'm like, what did I get into? I don't want to manage people. This is awful. This is awful. I'll go back to sales. And so my next career, I strictly worked in the sales environment, really had a blast with it.
Obviously, as you grow and you mature, there's managing a sales team is a lot different than just general managing, but go back to that high school and go back to that college. Like what could we do to impact our, our either young and even people mid career that are kind of hitting [00:11:00] a wall. I mean, here's a great line that I'm going to get, I'm going to credit my dad for this line.
Sales people are the only people that are paid exactly what they're worth. Think about that for a minute. It's not to ding any other career, any profession that it's not important, but in a sales environment, you make your own income, right? You are paid exactly what you're worth. And if you think about the trajectory in your career and it's okay, we don't need to follow a straight path.
You might be brand new in sales, listening to this. You might be like, yep, been in it longer than you, or gosh, you're right. I do have those preconceived notions about sales. If you really think about it and you think about the economy and you think about all the crazy things that happen in. Salespeople are paid exactly what they're worth.
You make your own path, right? You alluded to, I have little ones. I have little ones. They're not little, little anymore, but they were a little, little, you want to talk about weaving your life and your work together so that you can serve both your family. As well as your career, it's [00:12:00] possible in this particular path.
So I did have those preconceived notions about sales. I wish I would have been exposed to it earlier as a younger age. I couldn't imagine being truly out of a sales environment at this point in my career, but I, I, I wish we exposed our younger generation. To the possibility of sales and what that could mean from them, not just from an income perspective, but also from a work life balance, which in the last few years, we've all kind of had a taste of that work from home.
I got to tell you why you like working from home. This is the career to do it. Yes. Yes. You got to do those late nights. Yes. You got to go to the. Yes, you have to learn to golf. Let me, I got invited to pickleball the other day. I don't know how to play pickleball, but I guess I'm going to learn how to play pickleball.
So yes, there, yes, there are those things, but it is, it is one of those things where if you're in sales. You can really make it what you want it to be at the end of the
Leighann Lovely: day. Absolutely. And I grew up in a sales family and I [00:13:00] remember asking, you know, my dad at an early, like young age, like, Oh, I want to do this.
And I remember him saying to me, you're not ready. And here's why. And it was very apparent when I was younger that I was not ready. I couldn't listen. I couldn't, I would sit down and I would just word bomb it. Everything about me. And I still sometimes get off on tan. You know, I get up on my soap box and I'm blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I have a podcast for God's sakes. I like to talk. However, after really, really leaning in and learning about myself, I realized the world doesn't revolve around me. This is also a rite of passage for a lot of young kids. The world revolves around me. My parents showered me with all this stuff. I, you know, I was.
For all intents and purposes, lived quite a privileged life, had, you know, never wanted for anything. So yes, I grew up thinking that the world revolved around me. It took life experience for me to realize that there was a hell of a lot more to the world than just [00:14:00] me. And when I learned that, I learned to listen.
One of the most important skills to any salesperson out there. Being able to set your own needs aside and listen and hear and understand other human beings. And I think that that is one of the things that people mistake in salespeople. That we are empathetic human beings. That we truly want to understand, help, and ultimately solve problems for our clients.
Yes, can we be Boasty, can we be, but that's also because, wow, I just did that. I, especially early in my career, I'd be like, oh my gosh, I just had a sale. Oh my God, somebody bought from me. And we were, we were then taught that people don't buy from people they don't like. So somebody bought from me [00:15:00] equals somebody likes me.
Which was a strange concept early on in my career. So, if you
Sarah Bauer: think about it, if you think about that right there, you know, two, a couple things come to mind. Um, what, two, two ears and one mouth. Right. Active, active listening is tough. I still struggle with it. You probably still struggle with it too. You're an extrovert.
I'm an extrovert. Um, active listening is a skill that we are working on every day, whether it be with your children, with family member, with someone in the office. And why is active listening important? So there's listening, right? Like there's being able to reiterate exactly what you just said, but there's active listening.
And this is like, you know, bringing sales to a whole nother level. First, you get the win. That's kind of cool. Someone bought from me, right? Got another win. You're gonna have a couple, you're going to have a couple of losses in there too. Like I'm going to, I'm going to be, that's a topic for another [00:16:00] day, but that active listening is really important.
And why is that important? What am I doing? I'm watching your body language. Are you sitting there like, like this when I walk in the door? Are you open? How are, what language are you using? Are you using strong words? Is it, is a potential client? Um, am I listening to the words that you're, you're saying, like hate or don't like, or working or not working?
Am I reiterating those words back to you? It's actually like, you can gamify this job. We talk about that all the time. You can gamify it. You're not gonna, you're not gonna win every sales.
I'm just going to say that right now. You're not going to win them all. The best thing in the world is a yes. The second best thing is a no.
And the worst. Is it maybe, or I'll never getting back to you, right? That active listening skill is how you drive from that initial conversation to close. How you really truly can walk out of there and go, I gave it the best I could. And I will tell you, I, I'm a humble person too. I have bombed [00:17:00] on this. I still do.
I still have days where even now, almost two decades into this job, where I, it's just sales in general, where I'll walk in. I'm not really listening. I'm really just like, Oh, I got to do this thing. And I do whatever. And I walk out of there and I kind of go, well, what, what did I do wrong? Nine times out of 10, I wasn't listening.
I wasn't prepared and I wasn't listening. Right. I was rushing through it. I was word vomiting all over the person. Right. And it's, it's okay to fall flat on your face, man. That's it's, it happens even to the best of us.
Leighann Lovely: And I was taught. Early on in my career, the faster you get through the no's, the quicker you get to the yes.
And I was never taught that a no was a bad thing. I was always taught that a no at least releases you to move on. I love no's. No's are great. Oh yeah. The maybe is the thing that you go, okay, what am I missing? Because they're not saying no. [00:18:00] Either they're, either they're one of those people who just can't say no or I'm just missing the thing.
And that is the thing that'll drive any salesperson crazy. Then you're like, okay, what, what do they need? What, what am I missing? What, what thing will push them over the edge? And then you get stuck in this, like, but something that you said, you and I both know somebody That says this all the time. I show up and I can't remember when I arrive or when I get there.
And that's wildly important because if you're not showing up, then you're, then you're going to fail. And, and I've done it too. I still do it. I, I'm sitting in a meeting and I'm just like, uh huh, uh huh. Okay. Let me tell you about my product. And at the end of it, I go, what was I doing? They're not going to buy from me.
I was, I wasn't engaged. I didn't make a connection. That's on me. [00:19:00] I wouldn't have bought from me.
Sarah Bauer: We are always asking ourselves, what is in it? What's in it for me? You might be listening to this podcast right now. I guarantee you're listening to this podcast right now. And you're like, what's in it for me?
What's the purpose of me investing time and listening to this podcast? And that's okay. What's in it for me. So active listening allows that sales professional, even if you're not a sales professional, like try this in your own personal life. When you have the five year old that wants to tell you a story that's 20 minutes long.
Okay. Like you really want to talk about patience and active listening, talk to a toddler or a young child. I'm not going to lie. Yeah. But think about this too. You're active listening. What's in it for me. What's in it for me. So if you can listen and speak to what's in it for them. They, you don't have to go through your spiel.
Let me tell you a secret about sales. They don't care when your company was started. They don't care where your headquarters are. They [00:20:00] don't even really care about you and your family and where you come from and all that. Like, I'm going to be really honest with you. I still remember when I first started in the career I'm at, I can tell you a story.
This is great. Cause you're gonna, you're gonna probably. Like be like, Oh yeah, I've been there done that I walk in and it's like one of my first meetings and I'm, I'm drinking from a fire hose. Like I'm learning this industry. I'm learning this company. I'm just like, I don't know what the hell I'm doing, but I've got to get this done.
Right. And I have a binder with me and it's got like pictures of our corporate office and it's got like statistics about how many employees we have. And it's, and I'm just like, okay, this is going to be great. And I remember I was sitting across the table from someone and he was the kindest human, the kindest person.
And you could tell how incredibly uninterested he was, but I didn't know what the heck I was doing. I was in, and again, this does happen when you're new in a role and I'm flipping through this book like, Oh, aren't we wonderful. Look at us. And we do all the things. And I still think back to that meeting. I did not close the deal.
[00:21:00] Um, he was very kind, uh, and, and was just let me do my thing. And, and, and I walked out of there and look, that was so great. That was so wonderful. Like actually like reflecting back at it, like, About him, his business, what he wanted, what was important to him and, and that's okay. So there's, there's my, there's my tip.
If I can leave a tip, no one cares about you and your family and your life and your company and where they started and how long it, no, if they ask you, or if it's relevant to the conversation based off of active listening, like, well, how long have you guys been around? Well, let me tell you about that.
Then, then you answer it, right? But if it's not relevant to the conversation. They don't care. And pro tip, you don't have to tell them it's not even, if it's not important to them, don't bring it up. It doesn't matter. They are, they are asking the question. What's in it for me? Always.
Leighann Lovely: So here's something I, and something that you brought up by, uh, first of all, my, my first sales presentation, I still think back and I, [00:22:00] I had a mentor with me, which was great because had I not, it would have, I would have walked out crying.
Sarah Bauer: To be a fly on the wall, right?
Leighann Lovely: When I started speaking, I started speaking so fast that, that my mentor looked at me and the person that I was pitching to looked at me like, like, Oh my God. And I went, Oh, Oh. And so I managed to slow down and like get through it. But I remember when we walked out, my mentor, his name was Colin.
He went, Whoa, that was rough. But you did better. It was, I was like, I know I could feel it. I'm like, I could even feel you guys both snap your head and look at me like, what just happened to her?
Sarah Bauer: But you have to go through that. You have to go through it and it's okay. It's okay to fall flat on your face.
Oh my God, it's totally okay. And what are you really doing? It's not, it's not that, yes, you don't know the product yet. And [00:23:00] yes, you're new to the thing. It's confidence. Oh yeah. It was, it was, and that only comes with practice and time and good mentorship and leadership. So if you're new in a role, like if you all of a sudden said, I need you to sell me, I need it.
We're going to go out into the field. We're going to sell cell phones. That's what we're going to do. Okay. I mean, I can fake it till I make it, but I couldn't tell you much about selling cell phones. I don't know how to sell cell phones, right? So, so I'm probably going to speak fast. I'm probably going to be all over the place.
I'm probably not going to be active listening. And this is just assuming like you just took me and dropped me into a meeting and I had no time to prepare and that's okay. But I think recognizing that and you think back to that conversation and how you felt like that's going to stick with you forever.
And that's okay. That is absolutely okay. Because what are you doing? You're comparing. Every other sales presentation to when you were in that moment and talking fast. And have you ever caught yourself talking fast again? Cause you were nervous or you realized you were unprepared. I mean, [00:24:00] it's, it's going to happen again.
Leighann Lovely: Right. And that's, and that's my, that's my default setting. When I get nervous, I talk fast. But now I've learned to, you know, a lot, I've started to learn to, before I do anything, breathe, because I know that's my, like, I stop breathing and I get, and again, you know, I've talked to people, speakers who get on stage, what do you do before you go out there?
Every single one of them will say, you don't forget to breathe. And I'm like, Oh, that's, that's probably important. But so nice. There's something else you, you mentioned. There's this whole myth that only sales people sell and you were talking about your child, you know, what's in it for them on a daily basis.
And I preach this. Constantly to companies I work with, to, you know, my clients, um, and even in the HR world, that not [00:25:00] only sales people are selling, when we're talking about culture, when we're talking about, you know, a whole ton of people in your network. So when they say only sales people sell, what would be your response
Sarah Bauer: to that?
You think about it? Maybe you can argue with me on this. Sales is the oldest profession there is. Right. We are selling every day, all day long, every single one of us. So back that up just a little bit. Don't think about it in terms of like, I work for a company and my title says sales. Um, you are, I'm going to go back to the kid component because I think this, this is relevant.
Um, there's a really great book and I'll touch on two things. It's called Go for the Know. Um, I don't know the author off the top of my head, but we talked about knows and how know is great. Um, so let's just say sitting across the table from a three year old and, um, the three year old goes, can I have some [00:26:00] candy?
Many months. It's not time to have candy or dessert. No, sorry. And, you know, some candy. No, some candy. No. Okay. So what's going on there? What's that conversation? Well, he's trying to sell, sell it to you right now. Maybe they're giving you a reason. Maybe not that sales, right? You're selling to you in reverse.
I'm trying to sell on the three year old to eat his peas. Tell you what, if you three bites of these peas, I mean, this is a very rudimentary example, but think about it. I'm going to give you this. What am I doing? I'm negotiating. I'm selling. I'm like, you know, if you eat those peas, you're going to grow big and strong, right?
So I'm selling to him. He's, he's can be, um, coming back at me and try to sell to me to have some candy. Right. But this is a sales conversation. This is sales, right? So take that a little bit further. Okay, so I'm talking about in a personal life setting. Um, you are talking to your husband and you want to, or your wife or your significant other, and you're talking about, we're going to go on vacation next year.
It's a negotiation, right? Well, I really want to go somewhere warm. Well, I want to go [00:27:00] on a cruise. Well, I want to go on an adventure trip. So, so these are really simple things. Now take that into the business environment. You are not in sales. You are in HR. I'm in HR. I'm in hiring. I'm in retain, retention and compliance.
This is what I do. I don't sell. Yes, you do. Yes, you absolutely do because you are recruiting. You are selling the package. You are selling the whole picture, right? You're vetting. You're 100 percent doing that. You're selling the idea of working here to that person. Yes, it doesn't look like a sales conversation.
You're getting a yes or no. You're giving you are choosing to do business with someone or not, right? You're interviewing those people and going yes or no, vice versa. It's a it's a two way sales conversation. And then to take it a step further, if you think about it, like you own a company, and you've got a sales team, and you've got an operations team, and you've got You know, all the other people that work for you, everyone is in sales because what happens when that operation guy goes and he's going to the bar later on and you're, you know, what do you do for a living?
I [00:28:00] worked on the street at ABC company and what is it? Ah, it's, you know, it's kind of crap, you know? Okay. What are you doing? You are selling. You're not doing a very good job of selling. You're not talking very positively about, but what if he says, actually, I really like working there. I've been there 20 years.
It's great. We're hiring. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. We're not only selling the idea of working there, but we're also selling the idea of maybe doing business with them at the bar. So sales is truly in every part of our life and I'm okay. You've got to own it, right? Right. We are not used car salespeople. And honestly, used car salespeople are awesome.
They have some of the best techniques in the world. We could probably do a whole episode on selling cars and selling goods, but we are all in sales. And if you think about it, Just think about your, your day up until this point, I bet you you've sold something, right? I bet you've negotiated something already.
You wouldn't have even negotiated with yourself. I'm going to go work out today or not, you know, like you really think through it, we're all in sales. So it's okay. It's not sales is not a swear word. It's not, it's a good [00:29:00] thing. Um, but some of us choose to take it to that next level and make it our career.
And that's okay too. And that's where. That's where it really is. Have some
Leighann Lovely: fun. And I love that concept, especially when we're breaking it down to, you know, even down to the, the, the kid level. It is, it is something that children start from the time they can talk. They start trying to negotiate and sell their parents on ideas or on things they want.
It is something that is literally comes. Naturally, just along with talking. So the idea that, you know, I've heard this so many times throughout my career, um, you know, I've, I've been around longer than you, um, or maybe, I don't know, God, I hate sales people. I've heard that line. And I'm like, why, [00:30:00] why do you hate salespeople when you yourself?
Are at your core, somehow a salesperson you have negotiated, you have sold at some point in your life, maybe not as a career choice, but on a daily basis, you are negotiating with somebody or yourself in some way. And you have from the time that you could speak now, whether or not you choose to be a sleazy salesperson out there who is, you know, using techniques that are.
You know, deemed inappropriate or, and again, that would be a whole nother conversation, but there are genuine people out there that, and the genuine salespeople are the ones that will exist long into the future. The ones that are not, they're a flash in the pan. [00:31:00] They will not, like you said, salespeople are the only ones who can write their own worth.
The ones who are. You know, not above board who are doing it the wrong way. They are truly a flash in the pan and they will not make it because they are found out quickly, surely, and quite immediate.
Sarah Bauer: You're selling yourself. Like you said earlier, that's the end of the day you're selling yourself and it's a branding thing.
And yeah, it is, it is interesting that you say that. And yeah, you're right. We could definitely go through a whole entire conversation just about, you know, the techniques used behind it. But I guess my, my, my big takeaway and the big comment I'll make here is like, don't be afraid. To one, proudly say that you're in sales and a conversation, um, and, and two, don't be afraid to try it.
I mean, you gotta start somewhere and you will fall flat on your face and that's okay. Um, your ego is the only thing that is perused at the end of the day. So. Sorry, but it's [00:32:00]
Leighann Lovely: true. I've had plenty of ego bruising and any salesperson, even the greatest salespeople in the world have had, have fallen on their face.
And that's okay. It's the people who are willing to admit it, get up and do it again. Who are the ones who are going to, to go from being good? Oh, now I'm naming a book, but being, you know, being good and becoming the greats of the world. So Sarah, we are coming to time. I want to give you a moment to, you know, give a little bit more background about you.
You know, if somebody wants to reach out to you, give us your 30 second pitch. Yeah, there
Sarah Bauer: you go. So, um, again, I, I do work for in the financial technology space. Um, feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn, um, and connect. I'm happy to mentor coach, just give you a word of advice if you're in sales or thinking of it, or maybe you hire sales professionals, or maybe you're an owner of a business, but I work in the B2B space.
So I sell from [00:33:00] business owners to other business owners, um, to, to move money when they use, um, Everything from credits and debit card processing, ACH, payroll, all that fun stuff. So I really, truly enjoy working in that small to medium sized business space and helping mentor owners. Um, but even in the sales professional space, I mean, I've been mentored by some wonderful people in my career.
It's a pay it forward strategy. That's really where I'm at. And, uh, yeah, I'm so glad that we were able to chat with, um, about sales today. Oh my gosh. It's not a square word. You guys, that's not a square word. It's a great word. Say it proudly. When the next holiday gathering, if someone asks you what you do for living, probably say you work in sales, even if you don't and see what the reaction is, try it, let us know how it works.
Leighann Lovely: Thank you, Sarah, so much.
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